Spraying With 2K - Book/Advice - More questions (19-05-11)
Turbo Mini Forums

Can anybody point me in the right direction for spraying with 2k. I am not interested in the safety side, I know all about that. What I need to know is mixing, spraying, finishing, etc. Advice on a good book or maybe a website would be appreciated.

Edited by Ben H on 19th May, 2011.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

The paint I use is two parts paint and 1 part hardener, I used 20% thinners.

If it needs it I have in the past I've flatted with 2000 and then buffed with the machine polish.

No expert but normal have pretty good results!

Cheers for that, and your local too...

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

If you are handy with the gun you can get away with leaving it as sprayed, otherwise as said flat and mop out, you will need a machine polisher though, forget trying to mop it by hand.

As for mixing, it depends on the paint, you can get mixing sticks off ebay which are helpful to accurately gauge your mix, typically something like 2:1 base to hardener then 10% thinners. However if your paint shop man is good he will advise you the ratios for your particular material.

It is very different to celly, forget lots of coats, one or maybe 2 is plenty. Much more durable, I will personally never use celly again.

I used to love celly purely its a good paint for anyone without an oven. Also forgiving if you got a runner to flatten off and run a mop over. Can you get air dry rather that oven 2pk? Its been awhile since I sprayed a motor. I think the last time I done it, it was with synthetic....a real bastard with fisheyes and flattening if you fooked up!

Edited by Jason G on 1st Apr, 2011.

2k dries through chemical reaction anyway, all the oven does is speed up the process to allow bodyshops to mop the paint and get the car back to the customer without needing to give it a day or two to properly harden off.

Only reason I asked about if an air dry variant was available is while its drying all the bugs, dust etc deciding to attack the car. If it takes days to go off....its a royal pain in the ass. A nice finish with fossilized wasps and gnats.

I bought a book called "How to paint classic cars" by Veloce publishing, (After a quick goole it's available on ebay) - quite helpful in the days when i knew nothing. Since then it's been practice, practice and more practice. You'll find preperation is 99% of the finish; whilst i love the actual spraying bit, it's nothing compared to the prep and subsequent work to get the finish you desire. It is possible to get great results at home, don't let anyone say it isnt - you just have to have conditions right and know what you're doing.

As others have mentioned, 2k is different to cellulose and noticeably so - but great results are obtainable. In the heat of summer, 2k lacquer will dry in 10 mins and no more - as Tom said it's a chemical reaction kicked off by heat. Anyhow different grades of hardener are available for different conditions - I sprayed the roof of my car in 2k metallic and lacquer at the beginning of March - it is possible in colder weather but just takes longer to flash off. Having said that it was touch dry within an hour of finishing the last coat - i've never experienced 2k that took "days" to dry. The few bugs and bits of dust that fell onto the last coat of lacquer were sanded off when i started the flatting process; so they weren't a problem anyway. I'll help if i can - any questions just ask!!

I have done a bit of celly and 2k, and i'll be doing the whole car soon.

The question I would like answered is, if I were to apply two coats of 2k, at what point should I apply the second coat? I know 2k sets with a catalytic reaction, so I can see applying a second coat as the first coat is catalysing is a bad thing? Is it right that the second coat should be applied when the first has cured? will this still give a good bond to the first coat?

Simple questions, but I have to ask, as I do not want to get it wrong, since this will be a bare metal job, I don't want to be putting in the hours ever again, lol.

I guess 2k is compatible with most primers? Or do I need to be careful what I use?

The next question is does anybody know a decent paint supplier in the East Midlands, preferably Leicestershire.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I used to use a place in Loughborough called hex holdings. Not used them for a while but still see the vans around.

I found a place in Hinckley that are pretty good aswell.

I've also used Hex Holdings in Loughborough the past, they were quite helpful.

With 2 pack, do a dust coat which is lterally dusted on, so you can still see through it and this gives the following coats something to stick to.
To gauge when its dry enough for the next coat touch the masking tape with your finger, if its touch dry go for the second coat which is heavier.
Third coat I do a bit more thinners to get a nice finish.
You can get fast or slow thinner for 2 pack and even what's called 'Rocket' to mix with the hardener to speed up curing.
Make sure the wallsand floor are wet to keep dust at bay and to catch overspray.
If youre spraying at home choose a day that the wife and kids are out

Paul

I seriously doubt it!

as paul said really regarding painting process, I would do 2:1 paint/hardener 10% thinners for 1st two coats then last coat top up to 20% thinners helps smooth shine allows to flow and reduces orange peal i have used 2k all along through prime to paint, make sure you use panel wipe first its so so easy for a reaction, also make sure the primed panel has been flatted down/panel wiped is totally dry and dust free, i tend to heat my garage to around 25'C Dont spray if its raining and post up photos good luck buddy

Confessed addiction to everything mini

Hi can I ask why not to spray when its raining if your in the garage

Craig

my mini van http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=448248

I was wondering about the rain. I would think that it should be the humidity level not the rain, it it is a problem.

All good advice so far though. I think I just need to get some paint and give it a go.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I think its to do with humidity. The higher the humidity the worse the orange peal effect. and if its raining, the humidity is high.

Edited by Sprocket on 2nd Apr, 2011.

my Advice is cover Everything that you dont want covered in paint dust,
my old man sprayed the bottom half of his motor in a big industrial unit. everything looked perfect until the next day when the dust had settled over all the equipment in the place lol

Orange peel effect is caused by the paint starting to set too fast - it hasn't had enough time to flow until it's flattened itself out
This is more obvious on horizontal panels like bonnets and roofs - on vertical panels gravity helps the paint to flow

As already mentioned, you can get fast and slow hardeners - the fast forms a skin on the paint faster, so is good for spaying not in a booth, as it starts to harden before dust and flies can settle on it
In a booth where there should be no dust and flies, it's best to use a slow hardener

You can also get fast and slow thinners, which speed up or slow down the 'evaporation' of the thinner from the paint as it dries

A good rule to help to cut down on orange peel is to thin down successive coats with more thinners (so that it helps it to flow to a flatter finish) - but you have to be careful, as this can cause a too runny paint mixture which can lead to runs on vertical surfaces

Reactions in paint is mainly due to the amount thinners in the spaying mixture, that's why it tends to happen with Cellulose paint mostly, as it's a 50/50 mix - the thinners is reacting to the paint underneath
With 2k, the thinner content is much less, so does not cause as much of a problem

When spraying it is best to use a good quality high build primer - to cover the edges of places that have been filled with bodyfiller, those swirly marks from the DA, and to form a good base before the top coat goes on
After the primer has been wet rubbed down with a block, if any of the old paint underneath starts to show through the primer, you should re-prime those sections before starting the top coat - if you don't the thinners in the top coat may react with the old paint, meaning you have to start all over again

Spraying when the humidity is too high can cause the paint shine to go dull or 'bloom'
As the paint dries, it picks up the moisture from the air and the moisture is trapped in the paint

Edited by ntm1275 on 3rd Apr, 2011.

What the government has to say

http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/priorities/isocyanates.htm

Right, I'm getting closer to the painting. I have most of the kit and the body is coming along nicely. What I do need a a decent spray gun. I am not looking for a professional gun, but a good value bit of kit. I am sold on the idea of gravity fed, so any suggestions of makes and models would be appreciated.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

when you buy a gun a would buy a top loader (gravity fed) because you will use all the paint in the gun when you use it. when using 2K make sure you make a good job of cleaner the gun out i always put a drop of gun wash in the pot so if you have a little drop of paint in the gun it will not go hard in the gun

1293 Turbo mini

Having a quick look round (oh and I did a search and found an old thread with some good advice) What do people think of this:

http://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/product.p...5hportmee51s7s2

or this

http://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/product.p...roducts_id=4974

Edited by Ben H on 15th May, 2011.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

Don't forget a proper mask (for chemicals, not just one for dust) pretty cheap, not worth risking lungs and health.

Dazed and Confused....

my money would be with the devilbiss gun but only because I've not heard of the Kestral and I can be a bit of a tart with names