Intercooler and Install Question
Turbo Mini Forums

Hello Guys and Gals,
So, I got hooked to the idea of having a little whistler under my bonnet (the 1310 is going into the pickup instead). So, I need a few ideas on making it all fit neatly:

INTERCOOLER - I'ld like to use an intercooler with inlet and outlet on the same side, to limit the air piping under the bonnet. Ideally, I'ld put a Lancer-Evo-style bonnet vent and the intercooler would sit in there... If I switch inlet and outlet of the intercooler, or fit it upside down to make the pipe bends less difficult, is there any problem? I'll try to find as thin an intercooler as possible to allow it to fit into the vent without fouling tve the he rocker cover. Would that throw too much heat at the engine?

RADIATOR - If I had to fit a 1997 - front-mounted radiator on the proper front panel, would it clear the distributor, or should I remove it and go to a crank-triggered ignition system? Is there any system particularly suited to turbos?

T2 Hybrid - Is there any T2 or T25 hybrid which I can take off a production car or are they modified specials? Any suggested suppliers? Any mods I should do before fitting? Do they come with 360 degree thrust washers? Are there any flanges available to fit the T3 on the Metro Turbo assembly?

Water Injection - Is it worth the expense? Or should Zetec oil squirters be enough to cool the pistons?

Gearbox reliability - I've got a brand new A+ straight cut gearbox (Minispares/Tran-X), with a Minispares 4-pin diff, MG CVs and Minispares rally driveshafts... how much power would that cope with whilst being reliable?

Subframe - If I use the T2, can I manage with a normal subframe, or should I find an automatic or injection subframe? Both are very rare in Malta, so I'll probably have tgo source one from the UK.

Looking forward to your replies,

Mark

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

would have to be a really thin intercooler under the evo bonnet as i have one fitted to my car and have trouble fitting the turbo filter pipe inbetween it and the bonnet, prob bout an inch of clearence if you lucky mate

"Can I legally marry people now that I am ordained in the Church of the SubGenius?" aka i know jack sh"t

i also make things

i love coming home to chrome

Mini Sprints had a cut-down oil cap on the rocker cover - what material is the rocker cover made of? Can I chop it down to size using a MIG welder?
This would give me an extra half-inch clearance.
Anyone has high-lift rockers under a standard rocker cover?

Nogin, do you have any pics of your Mini with the evo bonnet?
Thanks

Mark

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

The front mount radiator will not clear the distributor. An uprated side mounted one will be more than adequate as long as the rest of the cooling system is in good order.

I doubt you will gain much clearance by cutting down the rocker cover, instead I would think about mounting your intercooler at the front of the car where there is a bit more space, and also where nice cool air comes into the engine compartment. Stuff with top mounted intercoolers when tuned get converted to front mounted ones as they are more efficient so that is a clue as to which set up is superior.

Mark - did you get my last email?

Dave,

Yes got your reply, but doing some further homework. I've put this post to see what other ideas people might have. I'm probably going to use all your ideas, but once I have all the time in the word to finish this Mini, which will now be in its third Evolution, this time it's gonna be for good. Top engine, top interior, top safety, top aerodynamics, top ICE, maxxed out looks.

I want a front-mounted rad to clear some space at the sides, and manage to get the air intake inside the left hand wing, to make sure I have cold air from outside the engine bay.

Granted that the intercooler on top is not the best solution, but I hope to manage decent intercooling by having as large an intercooler surface as possible.

I'm not after top power, just a very neat turbo install as if it were "off the production line". :cool: Oh, and she needs to leave all the Minis in my club for dead!

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

there is another turbo mini in matla, I saw it at the malta mini show a few years back. Photo's are here
http://www.lyons-it.co.uk/photo/Mini/Malta...show/index.html

Team Racing

Yeah, there are quite a few Mini turbos in Malta, including a genuine ERA, which I helped source the more difficuilt parts for restoration - badgework, alloys, guages, aerial, etc.

But most of them are unreliable and rather amateurish, to say the least. I know of one of them who managed to break a Cometic Group A reusable head gasket in just two quarter-mile runs - the reason? A nitrous injector in the plenum..

Mine has to be the neatest, most reliable, and fastest turbo Mini around. In Malta, that means that it will take proper studied engineering, rather than just macho "boost it and intercool it" talk. I'm no longer in the Mini Club scene. Just wanna have fun with my car and my family.

Mark

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

Ok Mark!
Just checking!

Re the subframe - the T2 still takes up as much room when mounted to the metro manifold as the T3. There is no real advantage in using the injection subframe - only disadvantages; namely, reduced space for intercooler/rad, driveshafts going through a greater angle, longer rods needed on gearbox remote, etc. Keep it simple eh!


Water injection has been tried by quite a few on here over the years - I don't now anyone who still has it mind. Basically, the right injector that supplies enough water at 6000 rpm, provides too much at 3500 rpm... The only one that does the job properly are the mappable ones.
I dare say a two-stage (using two really small injectors) would work pretty well - the second one only coming in at 4500rpm or so. I've never been to Malts, but I'm guessing it's a little warm over there in the summer? You'll probably find a greater advantage to running it than most guys here who can easilly intercool the charge, given the lowish temperatures out here...

Dave, what I'ld really like is not to have to chop the bulkhead to do the turbo box.... so with a T2 and the normal Metro plenum etc... I'll still have to have the box for clearance? Seems I'll have to use the Mirage Motorsport conversion then...

Hot? in Malta? How does 40 degrees in summer sound like?

So, if I placed an air temperature sensor right before the air enters the intercooler which switches on the water injection at a given air temperature reading... and opens a second injector at a higher temperature... would that do the trick?

(and what if I mixed a bit of glycol or methanol with the water? )

There were a number of German aircraft engines in World War II fighters which used a water-methanol boost... but I guess I would then be asking for trouble with a piston meltdown.

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

You've got the right idea on the W/I - experimentation is the key.

Pretty sure the mirage kit uses the standard subframe, just with a longer tie-bar. Ask GreyPride, as he actually has the kit.

Have once read of a guy using windscreen washer jets as water injectors - cant remember where... could they possibly work?

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

You're best with aquamist units - I believe these were also used on the Escort cosworth?

Yes the Escort had them... as a kit in the luggage boot! It seems that good old Henry wanted to get the system homologated by having the system "in the car", but it wasnt fitted. So, some scrutineers actually request that cars have the kit in the luggage boot as per factory spec!

It's a strange world indeed!

Mark

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

indeed the mirage kit fits using a regular subframe and actually fits with the standard tie bar, though it is very tight so it is wise to lengthen it.

the mirage kit is worth its weight in gold, it makes installation so much easier without needing to cut the bulkhead.
To be honest the price of ?350 may seem alot to initially spend, but one youve added up the price of a t3 exhaust manifold, adaptor kit, bulkhead box, plus the time and effort required to fit it all then in my view theyre a bargain!

plus you then get free technical help from rich at mirage 24hrs a day, im sure im annoying him now

Any ideas as to which car to best source an intercooler from?

The Impreza has both inlet and outlet on the same size... but I'm not sure it would fit on top of the rocker cover with a Lancer Evo bonnet vent...

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

this may help you pick an intercooler



selection put together by Dave

Edited by Jimster on 18th Apr, 2005.

Team Racing

my navara has an alloy intercooler on top of the engine with outlets on oppostie sides, ill grab a picture for you:





but as you can see its a large unit, and to running an intercooler on top of the engine you will need a huge bulge

Edited by Nic on 22nd Apr, 2005.

A whatawhata?

(off to google what a navara is)

Aha!

the idea was it would be fantastic for towing, then i could sell my 205 and landrover, and have a car that would be reliable for a good few years

the landrover is staying, and the 205 is sat on the grass with the engine half removed

Thanks to everyone for the intercooler picture! It sure looks promising! It's the sort of stuff you find easily from the grey import dealers! :) Any idea of the dimensions of the cooler? What sort of mounts does it have?

Land Rovers rule! My dad got a Defender tdi200 County, and he still wont part from his good old Series III. Both are ending up as pampered babies, never offroaded, and kept religiously clean both outside and underneath!

So - to recap - the idea evolved - normal subframe, front mounted rad, T25 hybrid on Mirage kit, top-mounted intercooler in custom bonnet vent, clamshell bonnet, all possible stuff relocated to inner wings - oil catch tank, windscreen washer, water expansion tank, cold air intake piping.

Some still pending questions:

What's the best turbo hybrid available off the shelf for reliable power ? 150bhp ish, boostable for track use

Ignition - is there any alternative to using the ditributor? A crank-sensor thingy maybe?

Thanks to everyone for their help so far!

Mark

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

you can go for mapped ignition to get rid of the dizzy, megajolt apears to be good, personally I used Emerald M3D

Team Racing

emerald,omex and gems are the same unit ..... says so in my omex manual

emerald looks cooler though

wolfie is the omex manual online? would be interested to read more

Team Racing