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Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire

Its been over a year since she last was on the road. But all the drama aside and christmas spent with spanner in hand has been paid back by my little beauty firing back to life. The re-built engine spec is as follows.

Plus 20 11cc 20831 pistons
Mini speed turbo cam shaft
ported not polished head 28.5cc chambers
Ss exhaust valves
TAM1061 inlet valves
Phosphor bronze guides
Duplex vernier adjustable timing gear
Cometic head gasket
Matched inlet and exhaust manifold ports to head
Front mounted intercooler
Carbon fibre pipes

I have calculated the static cr to be 7.06/1, this will allow me to run 15psi of boost and a dynamic cr of 14.5ish/1
I spent as little as possible putting this engine together as I really want to have a stronger bottom end and work on the clutch before throwing more money into it.

Own the day


JT

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2742 Posts
Member #: 637
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Hertfordshire

well done mate!!
bet its a really good feeling to get it to fire up for the first time!

i would like to meet up with you one day as your only down the road from me!!

any pics of it?

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985


wng691s clubby

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2057 Posts
Member #: 9252
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Cleethorpes

nice one i cant wait for the day i get to fire up my turbo lump

Done now needs redoing lol


jamie@thefatgarage

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665 Posts
Member #: 9345
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Sheffield

On 2nd Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:
I have calculated the static cr to be 7.06/1


wouldn't you need about a 3mm deck height to get that based on your spec or is my maths wrong?


wez

1226 Posts
Member #: 9271
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Stoke on Trent

Nice to hear you got a running motor, I was under the impression that the dynamic cr was less than the static cr due to piston being part way back up the bore before total valve closure?

one day boost will be mine!

On 10th Mar, 2012 Joe C said:
TBH peple stick it everywhere... and theres merits to each...


matty

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8297 Posts
Member #: 408
Turbo Love Palace Fool

Aylesbury

7.06:1, thats about the lowest figure ive seen!

I agree with jamie, without a decomp plate or masses machined off the crowns I can't see how you got that figure? I would of thought that would be more around 8.6/8:1 on a 'normal' deck height?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fusion-Fabri..._homepage_panel

www.fusionfabs.co.uk



1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi


Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire





Cometic 0.140 head gasket. 0 Deck height, which were all over the place so I used the smallest one.

Edited by Mr Joshua on 3rd Jan, 2012.

Own the day


Sprocket

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11046 Posts
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Preston On The Brook




On 2nd Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:


I have calculated the static cr to be 7.06/1, this will allow me to run 15psi of boost and a dynamic cr of 14.5ish/1


Not sure how you'll manage to get a dynamic CR of 14.5:1 at 15psi with 7:1 static othern than having the inlet valves close at TDC.

You could go 30psi with a 7:1 static compression, and a decent intercooler.

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire

I put all my figures into the calculator I posted on here a while back and it came out at 7.06/1 static. If I use a standard thickness gasket (0.30") it works out to be over 8.4/1

Own the day


tadge44

3006 Posts
Member #: 2500
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Buckinghamshire

You are all making me wonder about my CR now !

I had it at 8.2/8.3 static with 25.5cc chambers and 14cc pistons and I,m using 16psi.


Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire

How thick is your head gasket. When I used both calculators on here I got massively different figures. When I looked into it one of them left out a volume figure, I can't remember what figure it was, either piston dish volume or gasket.
I got my cr down mainly due to the head gasket you can see the difference is quite big compared to the standard thickness gasket.

Edited by Mr Joshua on 3rd Jan, 2012.

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Sprocket

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11046 Posts
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Preston On The Brook

With the figures you give for the pistons, the head and the gasket, I too work it out at around 7:1 CR

The questing is, why so sluggishly low with only 15psi?

and how do you manage a 14:1 dynamic CR? Is the Minispeed turbo cam some sort of odd ball? or have you timed it in correctly?

what cranking pressures to you get on a warm engine?

You engine will run, but will be miles off its full potential, that said, you could afford to run a chunk more ignition advance

Edited by Sprocket on 3rd Jan, 2012.

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Paul S

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8604 Posts
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Formerly Axel

Podland

On 3rd Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:
If I use a standard thickness gasket (0.30") it works out to be over 8.4/1


On 3rd Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:
Cometic 0.140 head gasket.


Your head gaskets thicknesses are all to cock.

Allowing 4cc for gasket and deck/ring land will give around 8.4:1. Just right.

Edited by Paul S on 3rd Jan, 2012.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

http://www.minispeed.co.uk/content/head-ga...c-120thou-thick

0.120"

gold price tag too

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


theoneeyedlizard

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7265 Posts
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The Boom Boom speaker Police!

Essex

Aaaaaaaawww much????

In the 13's at last!.. Just


rubicon

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I like granny porn.

LONDONSHIRE

bin the dizzy man,
about time you got an intercooler too

On 2nd Oct, 2009 Vegard said:


On 1st Oct, 2009 Jimster said:
I bet my first wank came quicker than your first mini turbo


These new modern turbos with their quick spool up time, would make the competition harder.


On 15th Aug, 2011 robert said:
phew!!! thank you brett for smashing in my back doors .( not something i imagined writing... EVER)


Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire

Honestly it is 0.140" thick! I looked at the 0.120" gasket but decided on the thicker one due to me running cast pistons.

The link to the suite that has the compression radio calculator also has a boost compression ratio calculator which takes into consideration your pressure altitude for correction.

Agreed what cam you use will have a marked affect on your cranking compression ratio but from what I can tell the one I installed its a modified MG Metro can shaft.winch is very close to the sw5.

Own the day


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook




On 3rd Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:

The link to the suite that has the compression radio calculator also has a boost compression ratio calculator which takes into consideration your pressure altitude for correction.

Agreed what cam you use will have a marked affect on your cranking compression ratio but from what I can tell the one I installed its a modified MG Metro can shaft.winch is very close to the sw5.


Ah OK. That is not actually 'dynamic' compression ratio. The dynamic compression ratio takes into consideration the stroke, the rod length and the crank angle at the point the inlet vlave closes. Mostly, the piston has already started to travel back up the bore on the compression stroke before the inlet valve has closed, therefore, the dynamic compression will be less than the static, since there is less volume of trapped charge within the cylinder.


On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Mr Joshua

2496 Posts
Member #: 1954
Post Whore

Luton Bedfordshire

Ah! Sorry I made the wrong assumption with my terminology.

To answer an above query when I put the compression tester on I was getting 6:1cr

I ran a n/a mini at 14:1cr so built this engine to achieve that cr while on boost. So running a static cr of 7:1 and 15psi of boost should give me an on boost compression radio of 14:1 roughly.

The issue I have trouble resolving is the affect the chosen cam profile has. In an ideal world you would get total displaced volume compression but as above the piston is travelling back up the bore while the inlet valve its still closing, factor in over lap and valve lift at over lap and the question I ask myself is what compression am I actually achieving at tdc. Is the gauge reading good enough to use that cr figure in my on boost cr calculations as I am sure 5 makes of gauge will give me 5 different readings

Edited by Mr Joshua on 4th Jan, 2012.

Own the day


Paul S

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8604 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland


On 4th Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:
I ran a n/a mini at 14:1cr so built this engine to achieve that cr while on boost. So running a static cr of 7:1 and 15psi of boost should give me an on boost compression radio of 14:1 roughly.


So, if you wanted to run 30 psi, you would drop the compression ratio down to less than 5:1 ???

The main factor in determining the compression ratio is detonation which is caused, primarily by high cylinder temperatures, not pressures. The temperature of the charge at the point of ignition is determined by the charge tempertaure at the inlet valve.

It therefore follows that if you can guarantee ambient temperature at the inlet valve, you do not need to reduce the compression ratio at all. Obviously you can't achieve that, but there is little need to go below 8:1 at any boost with a half decent intercooler.

Having said that, with the right set of manifolds and pulse tuning creating positive scavenging, a low compression ratio could, in theory, make more power :) but that's another subject altogether.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


jamie@thefatgarage

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665 Posts
Member #: 9345
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Sheffield




On 4th Jan, 2012 Paul S said:

On 4th Jan, 2012 Mr Joshua said:
I ran a n/a mini at 14:1cr so built this engine to achieve that cr while on boost. So running a static cr of 7:1 and 15psi of boost should give me an on boost compression radio of 14:1 roughly.


So, if you wanted to run 30 psi, you would drop the compression ratio down to less than 5:1 ???

The main factor in determining the compression ratio is detonation which is caused, primarily by high cylinder temperatures, not pressures. The temperature of the charge at the point of ignition is determined by the charge tempertaure at the inlet valve.

It therefore follows that if you can guarantee ambient temperature at the inlet valve, you do not need to reduce the compression ratio at all. Obviously you can't achieve that, but there is little need to go below 8:1 at any boost with a half decent intercooler.

Having said that, with the right set of manifolds and pulse tuning creating positive scavenging, a low compression ratio could, in theory, make more power :) but that's another subject altogether.


Agree with all of that, and point out that the mixture, octane rating (including the effect of things like water and or meth etc) also may influence CR decisions.

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