Forged steel H beam Rods, cheap?
Turbo Mini Forums

The Specialist Components rods are heavy at 520 grams all in. TBH I find the statement that these rods are 490g missleading, perhaps making them more attractive to a perspective buyer, only to find they weigh 520g including bolts. I know for a fact that the Saenz rods including bolts weigh less than Specialist Components rods without bolts


No one is arguing that thes 'cheap' H section rods will work, it's just that they are not as light as they should be. The real point of using H section rods is that they are light without compramising strength. If your not fussed about the weight aspect, there is nothing wrong with them. but then, a good modified A+ rod will do a similar job, since if your not looking for a light rod, the engine isn't going to rev to where it will become a problem.

Edited by Sprocket on 18th Mar, 2012.

what does a standard rod weigh?

one day boost will be mine!

From my point of view I needed a set of rods as my cam wiped mine out,
by the time I had priced up getting a second hand set of rods, a set of Arp's, and getting them worked & balanced the Spec comps ones were looking worthwhile.

Wish I'd had the H beams to start with as they miss the cam!

Also Ive seen Std A series rods with the bolt holes off enough that the bolt touches the big end shell, I wouldnt use one like that in a high performance engine.

Yep you and I would turf it out, and company's that are any good, but some wouldn't.

i can't comment on others rods but my own yes. I design in norfolk all of the sc rods/cranks like i do all the sc products/cylinder heads etc. so i can control my own quality as i know whats needed. My rods are slightly heavier than other rods as i carry a little more small end weight than others - this ensures 100% that the small end won't elongate at high rpm/ over revs, i could reduce it but won't my 100% reliability record stands for itself. the only rod to receive incident was keith calvers racer where the cam broke and bent the rod. ring keith up and ask about my rods-he's a straight talking northerner whom uses them in his race engines. I design and supply a number of traders under their own branding, the hardest use rods and crank so far are the irish rally crowd where we have de-stroked 2.0l duratecs at 1598cc that make peak power at 10500rpm and regularly go to 11600rpm, these engines have cranks that i've designed that are heavier than stock - so weight is not the be all and end all of product design. if anyone wants to see my a rod drawings-minus sensitive info- i'll happily email the pdf - i don't deal in bullshit ot speculation, as an honours degree engineer in auto engineering design, with over 10 years spent at the coal face as a tier 1 supplier and principal chassis design engineer at lotus i know that bullshit and lack of development/engineering practise is the short road to failure, hence why everything we do at sc is proven. Robert is quite right any engine that makes more than 160hp or revs more than 8000rpm leaves here with my crank and rods in them., goldie has them in etc. so i have nothing to hide or prove we stand by what we do.
now that i've come on here to re-iterate how a professional engineering company works lets get a a little side tracked and put the boot on the other foot, many of you guys happily spend vast amounts of money with Carl on his wheels etc, has any of you ever asked to see the fea plots to show that these wheels are actually strong enough to withstand the rigours of competition/road use/durability- if he has indeed designed the parts from an engineering viewpoint rather than a cosmetic one i'm sure he'll be more than happy to show the von mises stress plots to prove his wheels are more than safe enough for you guys to put your lives in their hands? i can show you the fea stress plots for the wheels i design and talk you through the rational of the loadind/cyclic proceudre, come on then Carl lets see stress plots to put all these peoples minds to rest.

the short answer is call sc if you want to talk to us about our products,


jk

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

just for the complete picture, are your components uk made as well?

one day boost will be mine!

what spec steel are they jk

Wez- pls refer to the last line in my previous post

Benross - they start life as forged blanks in aisi 4340 - closest equv is en24

jk

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Ahh, the keyboard warrior that thinks they are an expert in engine calibration/mapping and has never conducted an engine dyno session, never mind a euro 5 cert programme - go back to your day job pls.

back on topic though - none of you guys are worried that the wheels being hawked by a very vocal member slagging me off have been through any FEA process before you go whizzing around on them? - thats very good of you to trust your life like that, shame my rods being 20g or so heavier than the lightest possible make them such a bad thing. Theres a big world of difference between a good machinist and a qualified design engineer - ask the right questions of a prospective purchase, if you don't get the answers you should, walk away.

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Haha, I was doing engine dyno sessions whilst you were still in short trousers.

As for my day job, well that's design engineering that underpins £millions of capital investment that provides £billions of benefits to the economy. You're just playing with toys.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

exactly Paul- its not related to engine calibration or engine design or emmisions calibartion for production cars is it?- you don't see me wading into your world slagging it off like I know better do you?

enthusiastic "Freds in sheds" are a lot of what the mini world is about and how mad ideas pop up, thats the beauty of the English mentality, on the flip side is the bad press that can be passed on through active forums like this that is non fact based or at best biased through personal dis-likes.

JK

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Well. The saenz rods that SH made together with Saenz( which is a well known quality rod designer/maker) weighs 434 grams with bolts, so they are quite a bit ligher. Also they have 100% reliability as far as I know

The saenz ones look good, there not as expensive as arrow either.

Matt W

I apologise if I'm wrong, but having spent an afternoon searching through their website, I cant find any information on where Saenz actually manufacture their rods... I realise they are based in Miami, but they never mention machining the rods in the US. Do they, or are these made somewhere like China? If they did make them in the US I'd have thought they would have been shouting about it!

Right now nobody knows where any rods are made, other than the max speeding ones, I asked where the sc ones were made but didn't really get an answer, I just think this thread is getting a little bit out of hand now. But that's just me.

one day boost will be mine!

Audi s4 b5 - 470bhp & 486ft lbs

On 30th Apr, 2012 Brett said:
yeah stick the bit in and give it a wobble

Stop worrying about where the rods are made. It means feck all.

What matters is the design and the quality control applied during manufacture. If they are not made in the country of sale, then you need to ask what quality control and inspection procedures are in place. What checks are made on the raw materials used? What dimensional checks are made? Are the correct heat treatment processes being applied? and the rest.

Manufacturers are just as likely to dodge QA procedures in the UK as in anywhere else in the world, however, you can keep a closer eye on what was going on. Keeping an eye on manufacture abroad is an expensive exercise if done properly and that may be the difference in price.

When I was a lad I worked on "things" for Trident subs. An inspector stood at my shoulder the whole time. That's the only way to be sure.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Paul - correct, that is why I design and control my own drawings, processes and QA inspection.

When I worked for Lotus I was the sole engineer responsible for product resource to bring the cost of the Elise BOM down, which we did from 14500 to 10500, so I spent a vast amount of my time travelling the world from India to Brazil, South Africa setting up plants/production lines/QA processes and resourcing products from soft tops to steering racks - these years of experience is what ensures my supply base is 100% to my levels of expectation.

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

Mw3 reading all of you previous posts if it's for your engine I'm not sure why you wouldn't just go with what ever kad recommend. At least any warrenty will be with them.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Im sure they could tell me what they use, i was just interested to see why these were less expensive compared to other forged steel rods, and what the differences were between the different scales of price. Always good to know what your paying for.

Matt W

There seems to have been a bit of a missunderstanding with my earlier post,

i never mentioned any names as i was being very general in my statement but someone looks to have taken offence to one or two comments contained hererin and sought to deflect flak they had unwhittingly assumed was directed at them by making an attack on someone called Carl who makes wheels,???

does anyone know this carl fella?? is he a TM member?



My comments were made purely to assist TM members in differentiating between one connecting rod brand and another,and the reasons for the said difference,
all of this is based on hearsay and gossip of course,

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

I didn't read a bad word about the SC rods in this thread, and Johns reaction surprised me personally. Your work speaks for its self John, and i always thought that everyone on this forum has a great deal of respect for your work. As you can see this thread is mainly about the rods linked by the OP, not yours.