Rubbish..............
Turbo Mini Forums

I've just been cruising on googl, came across this.

What a load of bollocks (But at least someone directs people here!)

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...66&h=0&t=109983

21psi lol !

There are a lot of 'ex-spurts' on that site, shame, as there are also a lot of knowledgable guys aswell!

That stevieturbo is also comical - I recall he claimed he used a SW5 cam 10+ years ago?
It hasn't even been out that long.

Stick to TM!

Stevieturbo also said that that the tiny metro turbo would probably blow up at 21psi.

Anyone blown their 'tiny' T3 at 21 psi?

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

I especially liked the comment that the "metro turbo block is very different from the standard block"

and has "oil jets under the pistons as standard"

funny, because its bollocks......

I did a search for Mini Turbo as I was bored and that thread came up, oh ho ho.........

No wonder people struggle to find decent info when people spout bollocks like that ........
Thank god for this site.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

If you go to "how to turbo a migdet" theres talk of using
" plastic 3 way fish tank valves" as bleed valves!![url]

http://www.turbomidget.connectfree.co.uk/nographics.htm[/url]

each to there own!! LOL:cool:

Edited by matty on 13th May, 2005.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Yeah, I have seen this before. To be fair, all they are is a cheap bleed valve, three way throttle valve of any description will work as a bleed off valve!
But a bit Heath Robinson it has to be said.

I was just searching google, and look what came up.

I think a few points need corrected.

I'll take them in order as I find them.

Turbodave. I got a cylinder head and SW5 camshaft I think around about 1995/96, when I still drove my mini. That is almost 10 years ago. I still have the Swiftune head and cam on the car today.


Tom Fenton.
If you read my post, I said clearly, and I quote
" Since when do metro turbos have oil jets for the pistons ??
A metro turbo block is virtually identical to a normal A+ block. "

and with regards to the turbo.
Back in June 94 when I built the car, I had Turbo Dynamics, a relativley small company at the time build me a turbo. It used a 0.36 exhaust housing, but with a compressor wheel off a cossie. I dont know the trim. The Metro compressor cover was machined to accept this wheel. It makes full boost by 4000rpm, and pulls hard to 7500rpm. Admittedly it does start to struggle past 7000rpm in 4th. But with a 3.1:1 diff and 13's that isnt a concern.

Pushing a small turbo well beyond its limits is pointless. It simply heats the air, and quite often results in less power. Or with a small turbo running high boost, it could simply mean your engine's brreathing is very restrictive.
Boost is after all, only a measure of restriction within the engine.

Back in 1994, there were very few turbo minis about. At the first Mini event at Santa Pod, my car was the 3rd fastest over all. It was a full weight road car, running 165/65x13 Goodyear NCT2 road tyres, quite a lot of luggage on board, and driven some 400 miles to get to the event, and over 400 to get home ( travelled other places )
It was beaten only by 2 race cars. NO other road car even came close. In fact most of teh race cars couldnt even get close, let alone any of the 16v conersions that were popping up around then. I did manage at that time 14.7 @ 97mph. Later the same year I ran 14.5 @ 101 at Santa Pod, again with full luggage on board, still crossing the line in 3rd

I havent driven it in about 5-6 years, although i still own it. I simply realised it wasnt a safe car to drive fast, and have moved onto bigger and much faster cars.


I would be pretty confident that even today, despite it rusting away, and not having been driven for a few years, it would still be faster than most of your Turbo Minis. And thats with so much more information being available about the subject.

Where were you all 10 years ago ?? dreaming about a turbocharged mini perhaps ?

Edited by stevieturbo on 17th Aug, 2005.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

An funny that guy mentions using the fish tank bleed valves !!! Thats what I used. They were about £1.20 from a local pet store, and work just the same as a £20 brass bleed valve.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

If you read the entire thread, you will see that the part about the oil sprays was aimed at another user of that forum.

I still stand by what I said above, if you think a boost threshold of 4000 rpm is acceptable, then thats up to you, personally I don't hence my comment that a larger than standard turbo would be useless.
I also would be interested to hear how anyone would "blow up" their T3 running 21psi. You are completely correct in what you say above, that at that kind of boost pressure, a T3 is working outside of its optimal range, and it achieving nothing more than heating the air further. However, it is a pity you could not have made that same point in a salient fashion on the thread I was commenting on...........

14.5 second for the quarter mile is nothing to write home about, check out the 1/4 mile times from this years class D winning car at the Mini showdown, 13.4secs.

Again, you forget my 1/4 was run 10 years ago, and a full weight road car, with gearing to suit. NO road car at that even was event close.
The 2 cars that ran quicker were Mr Swifty, a stripped out, racer ( although Im sure it was road legal ), running massive front slicks, and nitrous. I think it ran 13.9 that day at about 99/100mph. The other was Mark Le Maitres yellow race car, who pipped me by about 0.1s, but was some 5mph slower terminal, again running slicks.
Back then the only other 2 turbocharged Minis that appeared were Paul Whiffins, and Stuart Gurr's
Paul was at Santa Pod that day, although his car was normally aspirated then. Shortly after he turbocharged it.
Both of their cars claimed around 200bhp when featured in magazines. They also claimed top speeds of around 110mph, which is IMO pathetic for a car with much claimed power.
Their cars were almost stripped out, running larger tyres, and short diffs, yet mine was still faster over the 1/4, and a LOT faster top end.
My car would easily pull 7000rpm in 4th on a flat road, which is absolutely silly speeds in a Mini with my gearing. Highest I seen was 7500rpm down a short 1/2mile downhill section of road ( rev limiter using Crane Hi6 CD ignition )

I didnt develop the car any further, as I realised even at that level it was dangerous to drive on the road, and the car was nothing more than a road car. Torque steer was near on uncontrollable. On the 1/4, I was getting massive wheelspin to about 75-80mph.
Relatively heavy mini, quite aggressive power delivery, road tyres, tall gearing and no LSD dont help matters. I think I weighed mine around that time at about 940kgs with me on board.

I didnt fit an LSD simply because at that time, nobody did an LSD that would take a 3.1:1 crownwheel and pinion. I ended up with a Tran-X 4pin, after breaking a couple of "Withy's" 4-pin diffs, who I think were one of the first to come up with that product.

Back then there was no internet, no turbo "experts" or indeed much information available.
I had to do it all myself, trial and error. I can assure you that it runs quite overfuelled, and badly compromised with a welded dizzy as far as ignition timing goes. But it was cheap, and it worked, and it was reliable ( apart from occasional head gasket and gearbox/diff issues )

If I was to do it all again, I could easily extract more power with mappable ignition, and the use of wideband's to monitor fuelling.
Quite true, a smaller turbocharger would probably work a lot better for me, but 10 years on thats easy to say. I did run the standard turbo for a while, but for me, I couldnt get any worthwhile power from it, so I contacted turbodynamics.
Ive learned a lot in that 10 years, and as I said turbo and engine technology has moved on.
Things would be very different if I was to do it all again.
I may rebuild the car someday. All I really need is a sound shell, to put it back the way it was. But as Im sure you know, they are hard to come by, and any that are, are quite expensive.
I just have no interest at present spending lots of cash on it.


edited due to spelling

Edited by stevieturbo on 17th Aug, 2005.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

940kg with you on board!!!1
ever thought of joining weight watchers?Lol

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Im sure at that time I made up about 100kgs of that lol Dont think it was much more. I usually did carry way too much junk in the car too.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Stevie..got a pic of your car?

I have been running turb minis since the early days.

I remember le matairs cars..dry sumped on a standard box casing!..tric!

JF.

Taken about 5-6 years ago.


messy I know.


Running a Renault 5 intercooler mounted sideways in the inner guard. Ducting is the grey flexi as seen lol
Dump valve was removed, as I had lent it to someone. Water bottle at the front was actually part of a very primitive water injection setup.
Air filter is using an ERA turbo airbox mounted in pass side inner wing, ducted to the lower valance, using a K+N filter.
At the time when I built it, discretion was important, as I wanted it to be quiet ( insurance reasons ) Living in Northern Ireland, being 18 years old and driving a turbocharged mini dont go well together.

I do have some photos of that day at Santa Pod, but I havent a clue where they are.
Engine spec when it ran then, was 1293, chopped standard pistons, Avonbar head, MG Metro cam with 1.5 rockers. T3 hybrid turbo, modified 1 3/4" SU. Exhaust is a 2" Stainless Maniflow side exit system ( as per original exhaust ).
Not sure what gearbox I had at Santa Pod that day, whether it was the Tran-X or standard. More than likely the Tran-X, as the standard A+ gears never lasted more than about 2000 miles before I stripped the input shaft teeth.
I have a small oil cooler mounted in front of the alternator, that came from an automatic metro. It was a better shape/size than the metro turbo cooler, so it fitted better.
I did have a couple of heads after the avonbar head, as it cracked badly between the valve seats. They were done by Stuart/V-Max, but they didnt work for me.

Thats when I went to Swiftune.

The last spec, and what it still is today, is still a 1293 with std chopped pistons, ARP studs, Swiftune head, SW5 cam, 1.5 Rockers, tran-X gears and 4 pin diff, same turbo etc.
It would be a little bit faster than what it ran at Santa Pod, but very little I think.

The bottom end was always standard. std crank, rods and pistons, apart from machining the piston to lower the CR. and never gave me cause for concern. If it aint broke, dont fix it.
I wish I could say the gearbox was as good !!!!
Clutch was a AP paddle, with a luckily found verto cover. I tried about 4 "turbo" verto clutches, including a new original equipment one. None would hold anything over 12psi. The actual cover I ended up with, and still have today, although I had a new friction surface fitted a couple of times, is a standard "balco" brand. The diaphram on it is very heavy though, and it has always gripped well. It was a very lucky find. All std clutches are defo not the same.
I didnt want to go to and old Mini clutch, as it would have fouled my IC pipework.

I stripped about 3 std gearboxes, before I went straight cut, and even then I stripped 2nd gear once. Gear casings usually cracked around the centre bearing too.. I never once had problems with std drop gears, or indeed driveshafts which surprised me.

Edited by stevieturbo on 17th Aug, 2005.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

I didn't know they did a paddle for the verto, can you give me some more info on this?

Team Racing

The friction plate is just a friction plate. I just used it with the verto cover.

Both organic and paddle are same thickness when new.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

is the clampling load greater on a verto? I'm using a non vertro witha grey diaphram, I still get clutch slip at max torque

Team Racing

The verto clutch is only good to about 100 horses... how come yours didnt slip?

Alex

AlexF

All in all, I probably tried about 6 different verto covers.

Nobody made an uprated one, so as would make sense, I tried turbo ones. From Rover, and from aftermarket brands. None of them were any good, all slipping with about 12psi, even with the paddle plate.

It is just luck I found one that would work. The diaphram in it is very strong, but it was listed for a 1.0 mini. It was a re-con unit made by Balco. Im not saying all their units are like that, it was just luck.

I went to a local motor factors, where they had several covers in stock, and did a very simple test. Place the cover on the floor and slip the top hat onto the clutch fingers. Stand on it. Most of the clutches I stood on, simply depressed, which would indicate a soft spring. After trying several, one I literally had to jump on it in order to make it depress. For whatever reason the diaphram spring in it is a hell of a lot stronger than any of the others. I used it, and it was a success.

I did come across another one similar a few months after that, which I used in a mates tubo mini. No idea where it is now, or indeed where it came from.

Simply put, all the verto covers, for whatever reason werent made the same. Perhaps a different supplier or whatever. The pedal on mine is very heavy compared to most minis, and it grips.
The paddle clutch does eat the crap out of both flywheel and cover, which is why Ive had to have the friction surface on the cover replaced a couple of times, along with replacement flywheel. ( cover seems to get it worse though )
Last time it was apart, the fingers were starting to wear badly where the top hat presses onto it. But I'd probably have well over 80k on it.

If you have a few verto covers lying about. Try standing on them as I suggest. The harder it is to depress, then the harder it will clamp. You might be surprised at how different some are.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

I do not recognise the car. The water injection?...Is it pressurized by the boost pressure as i notice it has a pipe from the "hot" side of the cooler pipes to the bottle?...that would work due to the presure drop across the cooler...i might be wrong!

verto!!!!..I am sure the metro turbo ran a standard clutch plate, the kind found in a pre verto...slay me you EX SPURTS if i am wrong!

BTW...Nice install, all the right bits!


JF.......

AP are reproducing!

the competition vertro uprated clutch in the near future which was used in the challange cars in the 80s

by the request of ian at avonbar

he has not got anything in at the mo but

they will follow shortley
according to an article in august edition of retro cars

on the metro turbo nice reading.

but not one of ians best pics ...lol

OH! stuart vmaxscart your the vertro clutch top man

Edited by BENROSS on 17th Aug, 2005.

hi,
my turbo mini was at the 1989 silverstone mini meet - does that make it the first ?-,and i think it was 1995 at york raceway 'mini v beetle' did a 13.901 @99 mph (still got the ticket i'll check the date ), road legal, 600 kg, standard diff
i seem to remember your car - stevie turbo-, i think pauls did a 14.01 at santa pod in 94
do you have your time ticket still?
pauls showed 192 bhp on baldwins rollers and minie i really don't know but with the experience i've gained since then and running vmax since, with a rolling road i would say they were both in the 180 bhp region ,
what was the problem with my heads ?
i have some 105 kg verto covers if you need one but only rate them to 140 bhp with a turbo plate
maybe its time to take it back to the pod ?