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Home > 998cc > Pre Build 998 Turbo Build ?'s 7 port head, stock internals

wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

Well, different RRs. But I know the clan ran on the RRs I ran the 7port on and both went on the Smart roller (when I had 5 ports), so I have comparable results with the same spec to make a reasonable comparison. also compares to other RRs I have used and got similar figures.

Also, significantly faster terminals at numerous events and I ran out of gears for the first time at a drag event. at Harewood I needed 4th for the firt time where we were hardly on the rev limit in 3rd before.

finally, there is a 'fudge' factor in there to compensate for a known value.

The car is a revalation on the 7-port, had I the money I'd have one on every car.

Edited by wil_h on 1st May, 2012.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


Paul S

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8088 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland

I don't doubt that it is doing around 20hp more, but surely half of that is attributable to extra boost.

Injection, done properly, will vastly improve the driveability of any engine.

Edited by Paul S on 1st May, 2012.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

Boost was 15psi on both engines with the stated gain. anything above that was extra boost.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


Paul S

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8088 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland

So we're talking marketing hyperbole again?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Paul S

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8088 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland

Here's what's bothering me about these claims.

The TT2 5 Port was one of the best developed engines on this forum. The SOT & VE equalled the best, including the 16v K & KAD headed engines.

Add another 20hp and the SOT & VE values go out the roof into the realms of unbelievable.

Just so you know why I'm being a grumpy git.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Nic

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9138 Posts
Member #: 59
First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv

Herefordshire

On 1st May, 2012 Paul S said:

Just so you know why I'm being a grumpy git.


I thought it was just because SC had been mentioned in a thread

On 20th Jan, 2010 kal14 said:

grow up you fool .


Joe C

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11050 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

smirk

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

http://s95.photobucket.com/albums/l154/min...2006/?start=all



Ben H

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3306 Posts
Member #: 184
Senior Member

Melton Mowbray, Pie Country

I don't think that it is all head. Lots of things changed during Wil's build. A new, and arguably better, intercooler for one. I think the fueling is much much better, it runs leaner and safer, hence the gains lower down. But there are so many little difference that need to be considered. The piping from turbo to throttle body involved less bends, the lack of the restrictor ring in the plenum, etc, etc. Yes the head is significant, but Paul you are probably right, not worth 20hp all on its own.


On 1st May, 2012 Paul S said:
Here's what's bothering me about these claims.

The TT2 5 Port was one of the best developed engines on this forum. The SOT & VE equalled the best, including the 16v K & KAD headed engines.

Add another 20hp and the SOT & VE values go out the roof into the realms of unbelievable.

Just so you know why I'm being a grumpy git.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.


Paul S

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8088 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland


Very true :)

On 1st May, 2012 Nic said:
On 1st May, 2012 Paul S said:

Just so you know why I'm being a grumpy git.


I thought it was just because SC had been mentioned in a thread

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

Ok im ordering my head but i need to know the stock/standard oem piston bowl/dish size for a 998? Or does anyone have a suggestion or know what chamber size to run, i was thinking 9.5-10:1 compression. Did a quick search but only came up with aftermarket stuff

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

Standard 998 is around 24, the open-chamber 295 head is 28cc.

Typical 998 piston dish is 6cc.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

Thanks wil, they are saying the last one they did for a 998 and boost was a 24cc chamber and I'm guessing it had forged parts b/c it made 170hp. This way I'll have room to grow for forged parts in the future. Any idea of what stock compression was on a 998?

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


wez

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1225 Posts
Member #: 9271
Post Whore

Stoke on Trent

a series with dished pistons is 8.3:1 according to the haynes, later a plus with flat top pistons is 10.3:1

i think the one that produced 170bhp is wil_h's mini.

Edited by wez on 8th May, 2012.

one day boost will be mine!

On 10th Mar, 2012 Joe C said:
TBH peple stick it everywhere... and theres merits to each...


minivan63

109 Posts
Member #: 9645
Advanced Member

South Wales

Med are doing some nice forged pistons now for the 998 if you have the money !
See here: http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=467010

Might be wrong, but isn't Will_h''s mini running a reasonably standard bottom end?


wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

Yep, if it's SC you are talking to, then he's on about my car. 24cc chambers, cast pistons.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

Yep SC, so what compression are you at then? Since its a daily driver i really didnt want to be lower than 9.5 but if its 8.3 as it sits then low 9's or high 8's :1 might not be so bad. Im going to be running a t15 Charger so i dont think spooling will be much of an issue

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

I run 8.5 ish (I can't 100% remember without looking at my notes, it's changed over the years).

But 9.5 will be good on a daily. You won't be running the boost I run on mine. My daily 998 turbo with a 5-port head runs close to 9:1.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

OK well it looks like i will only be able to get down to about 8.8 with their standard 22cc chamber. Maybe i can deck it some, if not a couple extra pounds of boost can make up for it *happy*

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

Ok my turbo arrived but is it really big enough? Its a GT15 from cxracing. I went this route because it was well priced and some of you had suggested a gt15 of some kind. Its almost identical to a GT1544 from garret and here is just some comparison pictures. These are turbos that im use to and may be the reason why i feel its to small.

Next to a coke can


From left to right is my GT15 then a t76 and then a PT88, we use the 76's for twin setups and the PT88 is a really small single setup. Normally we run 90+mm turbos for a single


-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


fab

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1487 Posts
Member #: 100
Parisien Turbo Expert

Paris\' suburb

Hi 408;
You plan are very interesting, and'll certainly a nice smooth rocket on the road.
Be aware you just bought a china pig as a turbocharger... Don't use this one, send it back as soon as you can.
U have a lot of turbo-options these days, look closely at turbine designs and match closely your compresor to YOUR specs.

regards


wil_h

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8498 Posts
Member #: 123
Post Whore

Betwix Harrogate and York

How can you tell it's chinese Fab?

It may look small, but it will pump as much air as you need.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Prescott Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder
Oliver's Mount Modified Series Production upto 1400cc Hill record holder
Thoresby Park Modified Series Production upto 1400cc course record holder

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack or imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


fab

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1487 Posts
Member #: 100
Parisien Turbo Expert

Paris\' suburb

Garrett units all have garret specs etc mouled in the housing casting. look at it precisely this one is a fake.

I know a gt15 will moove plenty of air, kkk have grone a lot with their associassion with borg warner industrie, and their latest developpement are gooood.


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas

Oh i know its a fake, but for $200 new i think its worth a shot. I also dont think that garret would put that much time and effort into a oem turbo that goes on a Ototsan (whatever that is), so im willing to find out if the Chinese really messed this one up. Plus ive been through the whole "china turbo beware" thing before. The shop i work for built a truck with some Chinese turbos and everyone told them it would not make power and they wouldn't last and hes been making 1300 RWHP for over 2 years now so they arnt all bad. So if it turns out to be junk then it is what it is and ill buy a garret unit and sell this one.

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale


fab

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1487 Posts
Member #: 100
Parisien Turbo Expert

Paris\' suburb

i've tried some and so it isns't and internet sound that coming back here,
the most impredictable thing that arrived is the lost of the waste gate valve into the turbine hsg,
two turbo's didn't want to product any boost past 4 psi's, waste gates were cracking opens.. ;
it's not sure that yours will give troubles, but considering the buy of a good second hand one, as could have been an iveco k03 from a 2.7d ( 50/100$)..


408.Luke

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36 Posts
Member #: 9909
Member

Tyler, Texas




On 13th May, 2012 fab said:
i've tried some and so it isns't and internet sound that coming back here,
the most impredictable thing that arrived is the lost of the waste gate valve into the turbine hsg,
two turbo's didn't want to product any boost past 4 psi's, waste gates were cracking opens.. ;
it's not sure that yours will give troubles, but considering the buy of a good second hand one, as could have been an iveco k03 from a 2.7d ( 50/100$)..


oh i dont trust the wastegate at all, im welding up the valve on the inside, removing all the other parts of it and make the housing smooth. Ive got a 38mm Tial on its way already, so as long as the bearing lasts ok and the blades are at some ridiculous pitch i think it will be ok. Im in the states so i dont have as good of a small turbo selection through ebay or other places like you might. I also didnt want to buy one from over seas because shipping can be pricey and if its second had and the seals go out or something parts could be hard to get. Where this i can buy a Garrett gt1544 and bolt it right up if my Chinese one goes bad or just get another Chinese one since they are everywhere here. Im not arguing that its just as good as a Garrett, because its not and never will be. I just dont see the need to spend Garrett type money on this build right now, maybe in a few years once im out of college and feel like actually building the motor with forged parts and such i'll put a proper turbo on it.

-1974 Mini 1000 - BRG Turbo Build Soon to come

-04.5 LLY Duramax - RC/LB - White - Built Trans - EFILive - Dropped 4/6

-2013 TDI Passat - SEL - White - Lowered on Coilovers - Daily Driver

-2003 Silverado SS - 408 Stroker - DP NO2 - Full Suspension ~900hp For Sale

Home > 998cc > Pre Build 998 Turbo Build ?'s 7 port head, stock internals
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