Project "Marginal gains..."
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi mate, is any of this info any use to you?


-----------------Wgt Before -----Wgt After ----- Wgt saved
Sub frame------------ 36.00......... 17.60........ 18.40
Fuel Tanks ------------10.00......... 4.10.......... 5.90
Fuel Lines------------- 1.40........... 671........... 729
Oil P.R.V-------------- 47........... 13............ 34
Slave cylinder bracket--243........... 156........... 87
Flywheel housing------- 3.17.......... 2.92.......... 250
Wok--------------------- 1.380........ 1,289........ 91
Dipstick---------------- 90........... 52............ 38
Sump plug-------------- 46 ........... 36............ 10
Alternator Pulley & Nut ---------169.......... 84............ 85
Radiator Brackets----------- 218........... 149........... 69
Master cylinder arm---- 40............ 25............ 15
Top arm bracket-------- 43............ 17............ 26
Speedo drive blank----- 41............ 8.............. 33
Alternator adjuster -------------48............. 15............ 33
Clutch arm-------------- 159........... 148........... 11
Engine steady bracket----- 63............ 18............ 45
Bulk head Eng sty brackets/bolts..353..........134..........219
Kad bias box swapped.................2944.......916.........2028
Roll cage bolts x44 M10x30............1760.........792............968
roll cage bolts x6 M10x50.............312............156...........156
Bare Subframe..................16800.................. 14900...........1900
Hubs.......................... 17300........................ 13500..........3800
Shocks, cones, HiLos..................6334.............3566...........2768
Flywheel housing bolts. ................355.............180.............175
Drive shafts...........................2929...........1474.................1455
Front / Bottom Arms...........3729....................2032...........1697
Slave cylinder .........................675................237...........438
pedal box.............................2076.................1830..........246

=============================TOTAL41.706 kgs

Simon.

I have started posting on Instagram also my name on there is turbomk1golf

Nothing is impossible it just costs more and takes longer.

also , in case its of any use, with carbon(fbglass) front fg bonnet polycarb windows steel rear beam my car was 660 ,then with the ally doors ,one seat ,and the cd changer out , oh and fiesta calipers ,Inconel sidepipe,and 7.9 inch solid discs , it was 615 .


that seems a lot to add for the box ,the mini box is not very light . was it 320 lbs for the mini a series engine and box non turbo , or am I imagining it .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Cheers Simon,

So your lightened front subframe is 14.9kg so my guess at being 3kg lighter at 11.5kg was close, thanks

Your first item in the list 'Sub frame' 36kg? what does that include? I assume it refers to some part of the rear subframe / suspension? Which bits are included? I think the std complete rear subframe is 50kg or more so not clear on what this line is identifying

Your car was weighed at MITP along with Chris Dillows as was discussed in another thread, I think you have a full cage and 2 seats (Sorry I haven't seen either in the flesh - so can only go on images I have seen here) are you aware of any other obvious differences in spec of your two cars. Looking at your build thread I have seen the not inconsiderable lengths you have gone to save weight so I was interested to know of any obvious differences that you are aware of as you know both cars.


Hi Nic,

Thank you for your kind comments and the info, thats very useful

So my front subframe complete with suspension/hubs/brakes etc is only a couple of kg heavier than yours

Sorry for the questions but what do you have door wise? Ally skins / poly / door skins cut out frame? Also do you have standardish size / weight battery or one of the smaller / lighter racing batteries?

I have just managed to find your 2007 'rebuild' thread and tried to find the answers myself but the actual spec of the car isn't discussed much in the thread.

I think I am on phase 3 with most of the components already! But at the moment most of the phases seem to be adding weight... As you say less pontificating and worrying and more action required as it doesn't matter what (yet another) unfinished project weighs...



Hi Robert,

Thanks again that is useful to know, so 615kg with heavyish (Std + Fiesta calipers) front knuckle/hub/caliper setup.

EDIT: Also on the FG / CF topic I am hoping to have a CF Bonnet soon, which should save 2 - 3kg?

I am aware that getting weight as low as possible is not just identifying the 'headline' items like FG fronts etc but chipping away at every bit will save as much if not more, I am just trying to get an idea of what people have done and everyone's info has been helpful with this so thank you.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 14th Sep, 2014.

My doors are aluminium skinned with bits cut away inside the door card area, I have kept the winding mechanism as I despise sliding windows.

I have a red top 15 battery I believe, I can't quite remember in honesty but I'm sure that's what it is. Sorry I don't have the car here to check.

I will try and dig out some photos

Nic Thanks again for the info

Really nice car by the way, deseaming is such a strange thing, some cars just scream that they have been deseamed and some like yours it can be a while before you even notice its been done.

OK So an RT15 battery so that's a seriously lightweight battery - 6kg?

Yeah any new photos would be appreciated, what weight are you down to by the way?

Cheers

I have started posting on Instagram also my name on there is turbomk1golf

Nothing is impossible it just costs more and takes longer.

Cheers Simon,

OK so the first item was essentially going from a std rear subframe to a box section bolted to the heel board as you already had the lightweight radius arms / discs fitted

Yes I just asked about the relative spec of yours and Chris's car as they were both weighed at the same place, I am not too familiar with Chris's car as just trying to understand where the weight difference was as yours already looks pretty stripped out from your build thread, but as you say the roll cage, mounts + dash & harness tube probably adds 35kg, the extra seat, subframe & harness say 12kg and the turbo 15kg+ so that's 60kg straight away.

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 15th Sep, 2014.

I used one of these. 1.2kg
http://www.skyrichbattery.com/p578/HJTX14A...oduct_info.html

Cheers Nic,

I have been digging through the archives (looking for more photos since you mentioned 560kg) and it appears you are something of a photo tease so I wait with anticipation for further images

Alex,

Thank you, what have you used that on? A daily, hillclimb special?

The last real experience of LI-Ion stuff I had was way back in 2009 with the LMP cars and they were £2000 per 12v battery and a PITA for reliability and charging, we changed the battery every time between qualifying and race as they were pretty unreliable.

In the mean time I have been making some minor weight savings...

Whilst I would rather be saving weight off the front axle (due to the front bias), I will, for the moment just reduce it where and when components lend themselves to it.

As mentioned previously I wanted to lighten the rear Superfins as I have done this on other cars, as an added bonus I think they look better for it.

r

If you compare the previous weight for the Superfin you can see this saves another 360g, they could be lighter still but I elected to leave some of what I would call the hoop stiffness section (the angled largest O.D. part) I think this reduces the likelihood of the insert becoming out of round and I can always revisit after I have used them without problems.

Again I wouldn't immediately recommend that anyone does this as a matter of course as there are plenty of pitfalls when machining the outer skin, the cast surface is invariably not prefectly concentric with the inner machined surfaces meaning that if you have a particularly badly eccentric example the wall thickness could become very thin in places.

We kept taking the drum off and checking the wall thickness when we had to take off a little more as a result of any eccentricity, we also made sure all internal radii were as large as possible.

For reference the draft angle of the spacer section and the main body measured at around 3 degrees and the angled inner (hoop stiffness) section was 54 - 55 dgerees. Well these are the angles we measured and cut them to.

And this is the complete hub / drum / brake assembly:



My target was to get under 4.0kg, this includes the hand brake mech levers, wheel cyl, springs etc, so everything ready to go. As I say I think if you really wanted to risk it then maybe 100g more from the Superfin but I am within less than 1200g of the £700 KAD disc setup so happy for now

I've been meaning to post some photos of the lathe we have used for most of the stuff in this project for some time but keep forgetting.



I think it's fresh out of the Industrial revolution and something of a Health and Safety nightmare :)



It uses a leather 'lap' belt to drive and alter the gearing between the three sets of wheels



But it's still going

Cheers

Edited by Aubrey_Boy on 11th Jul, 2017.

Drill holes all throughout the spacer area like some of the mig's

Drives
-Ford S-max Mk2 Ecoboost
-Rover 100 VVC #2 - track project

Searching is all you need on TurboMinis

That lathe is awesome! The weights are interesting as I'm running a very similar set up.

I can't see an issue with that lathe.

I have been silently watching this build, since quite early on, i must say im blown away by the attention to detail
those ally drums look awesome, i would have the clean lines of those over the finned ones every day

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

The thing that always struck me about superfins was that the liners seemed way to thick.

Ive made drums for bikes before and the liners are only a few mm thick. Superfins seemed to be more like 6-8mm. I wonder if someone could re design!

keep your fingers clear of that!

Like Andy I think that lathe is excellent.

I can,t see it wearing out in our lifetime.

I presume the fins are there just for show? And don't actually help the cooling? I must admit the look much better smooth.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Is your workshop a time warp like mine?

Top work as usual

Team www.sheepspeed.com Racing

They do look awesome n much better like that, i recently purchased a pair for mine purely for weight saving.. i then told my friend with access to a laithe id like all the fins turned off 1- to make lighter 2- to look better and would give impression of standard drum.. BUT he refused saying that surely the fins aid to the strength n did not want to get involved due to safety so i shoved them on as is..

Paul,

I agree on the spacer area holes I just wont be doing them freehand, anything that should be on a PCD and equispaced always looks kak unless its done on a Mill with a rotary head (well my freehand marking out and drilling does anyway).

Hi KCChan,

Do you have a build thread?, similar setup as in just the brakes or car / engine wise.


Yeah I think the lathe is cool, just not too happy standing in front of the leather belts as they are flapping around, they tend to 'walkaround' a bit to, so the noise they make is constantly changing and your always wondering whats going to happen.

Cheers Brett,

Thanks for your kind words, I much prefer and want the std drum appearance, I just need to decide how to paint them, considering a black VHT paint but not sure how well it will take to ally.

Slater,

I measured the drum thickness before we started and it was around 6mm total, that is the liner and the ally total thickness, it's a little bit arbitrary due to the draft angle but it will be slightly thicker nearer the inside edge, thinner on the outside.

Most mass produced cast ally is 2.5 - 3mm thick minimum without resorting to stuff like investment casting, so I reckon the liner is nearer 3mm thick. I wouldn't be happy going thinner on either the liner or the ally wall thickness personally.

With a 7" diameter Mini sized drum if the liner were 8mm thick then the liner alone would weigh 1.3 - 1.4 kg (40mm wide liner as this one is) and the whole drum here now weighs just over 1.4kg, so certainly these Minispares 'Superfins' aren't that thick.

Hi Graham,

I don't pretend to know the history of Minifins but I think they originally date back to front axle drums where I guess any aid to cooling would help so the increased surface should / could help on the front but I am sure is unnecessary at the rear. Also the fins will definately add strength especially the area where the spacer joins the drum body as this has area gets a tad thin inside where they machine the recess for the hub to locate on the drum.

Hi Jim,

Due to my ability to break anything and everything very few items with any age manage to survive my ownership, As already mentioned I think the lathe will happily outlast all of us unlike the stuff made nowadays which is engineered to fail.

Dave,

I agree and stand by my statement above that I wouldn't recommend it as it's all too easy to mess the turning work up, I know of several cars that have raced this spec for years without problems so if done correctly I am reasonably comfortable. but as with any of the lightening stuff we do ony any part FFS BE CAREFUL OUT THERE

Cheers

Why not have the drums anodised black?

I just etch primed mine and sprayed them black. They have been fine