Water injection
Turbo Mini Forums

Is anyone still running water injection,from the posts ive read it seems to be difficult to get it to run well at all Rpm's?

Im fitting an intercooler and trying to incorporate water injection, as ive got a major problem with pinking!!

if the timings anymore retarded my engine will be taken away by the men in white suits. Lol

Is it possible to take a bleed hose off of the boost hose going to the plenum without disturbing the airflow , or is there another hose i could bleed air off without too much trouble?

The injector im using requires air pressure as well as water pressure to atomise the spray, and hopefully using air pressure from the engine should help to regulate the spray according to engine speed (in theory)!!


any help would be appreciated.:cool:

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

what's you CR and what boost are you running?

Team Racing

thats the problem.....im not sure what the compression ratio is at the moment, nor the boost!?

when i built the engine i had 2 turbos one had a stiffer spring than the other in the actuator so i used the stiffer one.

As im not sure what the CR is, i don't want to temp fate and fiddle with the boost till i get the pinkin sorted!

The head is a stage 4 N/A head with 21cc chambers, the pistons are 1293 11cc dish (standard).

I worked the CR to be 8.4:1 but that was using 16cc as the piston dish size, as thats what i was told they were when i bought them, i know different now!

Im trying to get my intercooler fitted to help out the problem with pinkin and get the water injection plumbed in and get the lot set up together.

As the CR is going to be quite high for a turbo i think water injection would be the best way for me to get it running better?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

I'd buy a boost gauge before you even start thinking about water injection

Team Racing

its on my list to do tomorrow, aswell as sourcing some intercooler hoses.

Whats the least amount of boost you'd consider using water injection on?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

personally, from what I have read, I would never use it. I'd rather turn the boost down a little. There are people on this board who have / are running over 20 psi, and around 200bhp! what more do you want?

Edited by Jimster on 4th Jul, 2005.

Team Racing

I think that your CR is way to highI reckon it's around 10:1 (rough calculation).

Any boost over say 4 psi is going to cause problems, intercooler or not.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Ive just got a boost gauge and sorted out some hoses, I'll fit the gauge tomorrow and see what boost its running.

wil, what was the calculation you used to work out the CR ive got the measurements i took lying round somewhere i should be able to work out the CR from there, cheers.

Edited by matty on 4th Jul, 2005.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

I just used your info

"The head is a stage 4 N/A head with 21cc chambers, the pistons are 1293 11cc dish (standard). "

And used a few stansard measurements for head gasket etc.

If it's standard pistons with a 21 cc head on a 1293 it must be higher than the 9.4:1 standard metro CR.

This is because the standard metro would have had 24cc chambers.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Hmmm.....when you put it like that sounds about right!!!

Sh*t that is just a bit high for a turbo!!

what sort of boost do you think i could run?

I dont think ive got a standard actuator so its more than likely to be running more than 4psi.

i'll find out tomorrow.

am i right in thinking the standard (turbo) pistons 11cc?

Edited by matty on 4th Jul, 2005.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Not my area of knnowledge this, but I think the standard pistons are quoted as 9cc. However, there is some confusion on this figure, I have seen 12cc quoted as standard.

If they are 9cc you're in even bigger trouble. 10.5:1

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

The only problem ive had soo far is it pinks in hot weather occasionally since ive re-adjusted the timing a changed to optimax.

is there any other way of tested the CR apart from taking the head off, 'cause these numbers are getting worrying and it would be good to find out.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

matty lower the C/R by modding the chambers in the head its your first call

water suppresion is crap..

its only a bodge for not sorting the problem at the route cause

if the chambers are modded correctley in the head you should end un with a compression ratio of around 8.4:1 and that with a intercooler should run 16psi + boost no sweat!

thats if the rest of the transmission etc.......
can take this if you drive hard at this boost levell all the time

Edited by BENROSS on 5th Jul, 2005.

quite right vergard, 21.4 cc is standard. somehow I cot 24 cc in my head.

Still the cr is to high.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Ah thats not as bad as i thought then, pretty much standard CR.

Im not sure if the chambers could be inlarged as the head is a N/a stage4 there might not be much metal left to play with, might have to see if Vmax would have a go for me?

i guess theres no way to find out apart from removing metal and hoping it doesnt go throught to the water jacket!?

i'll have my boost gauge in today and maybe intercooler if all goes well...

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Just been on a test run with gauge in one hand steering wheel in the other...

at 6000rpm up a steep hill in third the gauge read 12psi!!!!!

does that mean my actuator could be sticking? im not sure how i could test its working without a RR?

when i accelerate the boost increases and doesn't really look like its going to stop. i thought it should reach maximum boost earlier in the revs and stop at the set boost?

the only difference between the two actuators visually was different part numbers stamped on them.

430 099 19 (used this one)
430 099 22

Edited by matty on 5th Jul, 2005.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

mat this actuator is set too high for the compression you are using buddy

8psi would be the max on this c/r ratio

if you dont sort this i can assure you it will end up going pear shaped !!

as im not using a bleed valve, i thought the boost wouldn't be any higher than standard.

Ive done over 2500miles like this so far, apart from occasional pinking in hot weather (that should be sorted with intercooler this week) its been faultless!?

Strange...

Has anyone got easy access to an actuator to see what number is stamped on it?

Edited by matty on 5th Jul, 2005.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

I've got 2 actuators

430099-22 Standard MG metro

A31 4187 Montego turbo (10psi)

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

ah so which one are you using on yours?

ive heard that you shouldn't adjust the threaded arm going to the wastegate, if i adjusted it would that change the amount of boost im running?

Im not sure if its been messed with before i bought it?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Matty not to sure on water injection, but i quite like the idea from what i have read, which kit have you decided to get? I have read about it on wizardsofnos.com i think, give them a look they know there stuff and there products look second to none! I am sure u know this but it has the potential to produce big power without detonation (pinking) due to increased boost or CR and has the advantages of reliability, better fuel efficiency and lower emitions as injecting just water lowers the hp slightly add methanol to the water to combat this, mix ethanol in a 50:50 ratio with the water this will also help fend away detonation better than water and also add some needed hp and not to mention it will help stop the water freezing in the colder months, also metanol can be added to petrol in a 10:1 ratio (the 10 being petrol) this will help fend away detonation aswell as it increases the octane level, the problem with metanol is its hydroscopic which means it attracts water which can lead to rusting of your fuel system, another problem to be aware of is if you decide to increase the ratio of methanol it tends not to mix well with the base fuel and will seperate in your tank. Hope this has been some help if not too confusing.

I'm using neither. These are in my 'spares' bin (the missus calls it junk, but it's bound to come in handy one day. Today for instance)

I use a 15psi actuator bled out to 18.

Wil

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Barkiboi

i can assure you that water injection is a lame excuse patch up job......
for not doing the job RIGHT in the first place

whatever youve read

ok it supresses suppress detonation but for all the wrong reasons !!!!!

it also reduces power output.. big time!.......
so your defeting the objective!

the proper angle to look at this is .... to get to a sane practical levell of compression say between 8.5 :1 & 7 :1

fit a good intercooler with the right sized blower with the right cam choice for the job and all the good guy internals THEN............... your on a winner with boost pressures usable in the mid 20s if you have done a right job!

no need for water supression

water supression was used in formula one cars in the mid 80s as a way!! to help suppress detonation these cars ran in excess of 45psi of boost with a wiches brew of fuel developing 1400bhp at 16000rpm

i dont think the A series needs water supression if ........ the jobs done right think about this ???? ..... then! ..do you!!!

Edited by BENROSS on 5th Jul, 2005.

You'll find (if you search) the plugged up water injector hole on a good number of turbo minis...

Not even worthy of mention IMO - unless we're talking about a fully mapped system - and even then not for a road car...