Pics or my gear box Done at POD.
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi

Here they are i'll let the Hogster run you through the problem that prob made this happen, but this was my foult for not doing a full rebuild over the winter:( I thought i would get away with it)

I would also like to state that this has no way any thing to do with the work man ship of the above person, i think it was a little to do with the power and grip on the day, hows that hoggy??

As for the engine i think it might be ok, but it has higher oil pressure than normal, i think some crap has made the plunger stick shut, i hope.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Ouch, that looks painful. When will you get it back on the road do you think?

save to say that that's fooked!

not sure nicky i have a few good mates who are helpping me so not to long i would hope.

yes alex i think your right.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

If I was to guess, I'd say a crack was initiated at the root of the 1st laygear (maybe as a result of a bearign needle breaking up?), but not to the point of failure. It was then shifted into second, where the separating forces between the laygear and mainshaft, together with a crack already initiated at the layshaft support (bearing) basically gave a huge and spectacular failure!

I'm guessing that it's basically a new gearkit needed - too many parts will be goosed in there? Is the casing also damaged from the layshaft bending?

It's reasons like this that many hi-po cars have torque limiting in lower gears...

Great pics though matt!

Can you also take one of the laygear (and broken piece) end-on? Any tooth bending visible?

weld it up, it will be fine!

Team Racing

Looks like a crack from where dave says to me too.

I bet that went BANG!

Alex

AlexF

Jim has a point - but I'd personally araldite it back together, then smooth over the cracks / holes with bodyfiller, then spray it hammerite silver. Good as new and ready for Ebay.

silver???? Surley dave cheesy antique green is stronger!

Team Racing

yeah, but metal isn't normally green... If matt wants to flog these on ebay to a mug, then if they're painted green it might look dodgy...

unlucky...hope got some vids of the run of something....

You can achieve an invisable repair with some blue tac and a dab of pritt-stick i think!!

Good pics Matt, hope you get all the parts allright!

-MINI CLUBMAN 1380 TURBO-

Now we're talking ebay here we come, my mates just bought a tig welder so a couple of well place tacks should sort it!

Yes dave it has made the laysharf hole in box a little oval, so I've just stripped an other casing down.

Good idea about not to much power fro the line may 20 psi was a little to much :$
Also Dave I think your right about the crack I think hogster might say the same, which in a way is good as it's not the laygears weakness that was the start of it and maybe not as weak as i first thought on seeing it.

Yes B16-b I hope to see it again to really see what happend so if any one had any videos or pictures of the day please let me know, as i did even get round to taking any of my car.

will sort pic out for you Dave.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

yes dave you hit the nail on the head.

im 99% sure it was needle bearing failure at 1st gear end of the lay shaft, because if you looked at the bokern piece of the lay shaft it is total score meaning that the bearing failed first causing the laygear to move away from the first gear under load causing the stress fracture and exploding laygear and the bent layshaft.

mind you the box hasnt been touched for about 2 1/2 years will defintly hav something to do with it.

i checked all other parts and realy the box is in super condition except for those shaged bits.

we are going for all nes bearings, laygear, layshaft and a different 1st gear becasue thats bollocks as well.

so it was as bad as first thought, my first impresion before strip down was a knackered input gear and layshaft at the 4 th gear end as this is were normal breakages can occure if you are blasting of the line, but as it was onl;y due to another part failure i was totaly wrong(never mind).

after stripping miniwilliams boxes over the years i have noticed that this 1st gear bearing end of the layshaft is the one which alkways weres first as well as the inside running surface of the laygear.

so to all you people with a stud farm under the bonnet not just a stable lol ( over 150bhp) than it would be prudent to at least change the layshaft and bearings once a year to be on the save side as well as checking the inside running surfaces of the laygear at both ends as well.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

What about machining the layshaft so that two bearings could be fitted to the first gear end??

Also, Has anyone done any hardness checks on layshafts?

A+ Layshafts are made from Rover, whereas the A ones are made by a Minispares company. I have experiences LOTS of layshaft wear on A+ engines. Could it be that the layshaft is CRAP?

I know the A is if smaller diameter, but maybe it's better still?

Two bearings next time!

After looking at the pictures, it's obvious that there's no room for two bearings on that particular A+ laygear.

What about using A laygears and two bearings?? IF the shaft is stronger as well, this might be the way to go?

Which gearset are you using? Do you have two bearings on the 4th gear end of the layshaft?

oil fed lay shaft?

Alex

AlexF

or just have a lay shaft made out of better material?

the a series shafts and lay gear also were the same even with the slightly smaller but wider bearing.

i dont think oil fed layshafts work any better than non oil fed.

its more of a excessive torque across the gears which pull each other apart on quick starts which causes the damage.

i still think for the cost of a layshaft and bearings its just prudent to change each year if you run loads of boost and participate down strips doing 1/4 miles and 0-60 times.

only of cause if the car is used on the road as well.

trouble is its hard to tell which fails first eg is the bearing wearing before the layshaft or vice a versa or is it just a piece of debris causes the wear.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

Miniwilliams,

what brand og gear set is it?

how many miles on them?

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

I've tried oil feed layshaft years ago in my 1380 and the shafts still wore badly, when i removed the oil feed the shafts were like new!

i don't no why but there seem to make matter weirse other people said that at the time of them to!

I have also had the NON A+ laygear with the 2 bearing in, and that wears out the shaft / bear / laygear as well.

I have been using the minispears gear kits, as for mileage it differs each year but i would say about 5000 before a check is needed, the ones that faled had done a few more.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

just been out in my car it's badly out of tune, funny that when you take the carb off carefully and don't through it around the garden when you place it back the cars massively out of tune!

any way gear box thankfully feels ok now I've done about 50 miles on it so I'm now going to change the oil and put some better stuff in. fingers crossed.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

That was bloody fast!!! :)

well hogster came round on monday and by around 2.30 pm i was ordering the parts so cheers hoggy for your help and for doing the gearbox:)! also cheers T3tone for your help with the oily bits under the car.

Edited by Miniwilliams on 10th Jul, 2005.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

Ready for another go at avon?