RTS verto - AP vs Valeo
Turbo Mini Forums

So the concensus is AP.

Looking at this thread http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...tid=444733&fr=0 the pictures of a "standard" AP vs valeo are obvious.

But both Colin and Brett say the AP version can come without the metal flat ring on top of the circular ring.

I currently have four of what should be AP, two with the flat ring on top, two without.

The ones with the flat ring are 99% certain OEM, the ones with just the circular ring (and much bigger heads on the rivets) are definately aftermarket.

So, real crappy piccy (only of three of them),



Left is genuine OEM AP, the others are aftermarket.

They shouldn't be Valeo as the rivets aren't triangulated to do what the circular ring does on the AP and the ring is there, BUT, a quick measurement of the OD of the spring shows 5mm difference.

This is all before I take them apart but does this mean that there is possibly "third" version once we go away from genuine APs or valeos ???

The main plate is also different on the non-gen ones, thicker and flat instead of stepped.

Open for thoughts at this moment.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I've just butchered three Valeos. One was like the centre one and two with triangular rivets. One of the triangular rivet's plates was a re-manufactured by National Clutches according to the outer plate that bolts to the flywheel. The other I believe came from the metro van's original 998 IIRC, so was likely to have been factory.

The triangular rivets heat harden very easily, so it's probably worth just drilling the rivet head out from the side the friction plate mates to and drifting them out.

As long as the springs where comparable in dimension and shape I would mix and match as necessary.

On my phone atm ill have a close look later but at a small glace th far right ne looks like the ap without the ring the far left the ap with the ring but the shiney one looks like a valeo to me

Yes i moved to the darkside

Instagram @jdm_brett

My first RTS was based on a Sachs plate.

The plate is flat and has larger diameter rings.

Works like an on-off switch

I have a picture somewhere if it will help, but it is very similar to the one on the right pictured above.

Edited by Paul S on 15th Jun, 2014.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

The Valeo that i tried on mine didn't work. The springs didn't fit together very well and stopped the clutch disengaging properly.

Not sure if it was just mine or if this is common on these springs.

No such issue with the AP.

In the 13's at last!.. Just

My valeo works a treat and isn't too bad on the pedal. Spring selection is critical. I pulled all the springs I had apart to get the two that matched the closest. I won't be making masses of power, so wasn't concerned about getting the n'th degree of clamping pressure.

The two picutred on the right are not AP. One is likely Valeo and the other Luk.

HOWEVER, i am finding more often than not, that they are remanufactured items these days.

as you say, the AP is a larger diameter to the others, but the important dimension I would think is the difference in the springs lever ratio.

Interesting.

I'll take some decent photos tommorow.

The two on the right are definately non-genuine, but whether they are re-manufactured or just copies - or maybe some sort of hybrid - isn't immediately clear, hence my seeking your opinions.

The middle one was bought by someone at work years ago from a motor factors for his Metro but it failed its MOT before he got to fit it, I have lost the box but am reasonably certain it was QH, and the right hand one is NOS from eBay and is in a Mintex Don box.

The two on the right certainly have a flat main steel plate rather than the profiled one of the original AP but even then they are different shapes.

I can't accurately measure the lever ratios until I pull them apart.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

If the steel plate looks like it has beet shot blasted, it's been re manufactured.

I doubt there is any simple way to pre-empt what you would buy.

There will just be too many variations, the only way is as others say, to find two with identical fitting springs and use them

But even the springs themselves, the actual clamp load varies by huge amounts.

Simple test is to place the cup over the fingers and stand on it.
The more pressure it takes, the stronger the fingers will clamp.

Some verto's even in single form will take a lot of boost, some will take almost none.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

I had too identical aftermarket clutches so why not use them?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

im under the inpresson that pre vert is now frowned apon?

anyone still use pre vert grey plate and AP disc? asking as thats what ive already got and not had any probs but that was na 1098 nearly std will now be 20 psi high comp at least 165hp and loads of toure i hope

anyway will it hold up do you think or is it just the way forward to do the RTS?

id ran the grey plate for like 3 years and the trusts looked grate and ill be re useing them so long as the thrust is in spec!

just want to know if its a dumb idear to use my stuff or just get or do a RTS conversion?

have a light weight fly and backpack AP disc all ballenced to the crank rods pistons etc rather use it if its not gonna slip under load or eat thrusts altho not experinced a thrust prob after 3 yars as a daily? whould the extra power casus it to eat thrusts?

Power doesnt eat the thrusts.

It's foot pressure on the end of the clutch.

Due to the leverage involved between an old style and modern diaphragm style clutch. The diaphragm takes much much less effort to open and close, and hence is far far easier on the thrusts.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Thanks for the comments, I have been out all day so won't get to pull them apart until tommorow.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

A little cruel but still made me laugh

With the engine running? Still remains to be proven, just like mine:)

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Haha cheers Col!

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.