roll cages
Turbo Mini Forums

after hours and hours of researching still not found my answers
so at the moment ive removed my 6 point safety device and would like a multipoint cage
ive had a look and self weld in cages like customcages and etc but there well over 1100 quid
i have access to a tube bender and notcher and have a friend who can supply me lengths of tubing so i can make my own
as i would like to run in events it has to be approved and etc
can i still make my own cage ? if so what do i need to do to get it approved ?

Its all in the MSA blue book

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_for...sa_yearbook.pdf

Page 153 onward

[quote=slater,9th Oct, 2014]Its all in the MSA blue book

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/msa_for...sa_yearbook.pdf

Page 153 onward[/quote ]
Would I need to do a weld test, provide a recipe for the material used ? Or is it just the case of showing to the event and allowing the scrutineers to look ?
Have I missed abit while reading ?

Safety Devices weld in multi point is a shade under £700. Infact, if you want to risk where you buy from, Minisport have an offer on at a shade under £600!

Your welding needs to be certified by an aproved inspector. Custom cages ask you to weld a test piece and send it back to them to assess and certify that you can actually weld worth a shit. Scrutineers don't know their head from their arse... or so I am led to believe.

If you need to ask these sorts of questions about a weld in cage, I would advise for your safety to buy a ready made kit, or even a bolt in cage like the safety devices one, it will already be certified.

If you've never built a cage, you'll never be able to build a cage. 5 years ago, I finally broke down and bought a tubing bender and notcher and I read the FIA regulations (Article 253) over and over and over again and made a cage that meets their regulations and then some. I did NOT, however, do the welding. I had a friend who was a skilled welder do the welding for me.

What I learned during that process was immeasurable. Since that time, I have built 9 other roll cages and welded them myself. The first 2 with supervision but then I went on my own.

What I can tell you is this: You will be able to build a much tighter-fitting roll cage if you do your own. I had some Safety Devices bolt-in cages that I test fit and they were unsatisfactory in my eyes. Sure, they worked with the interior still largely in the car and were aesthetically pleasing, but I would never trust my life to them in motorsport. I'm not saying they are unsafe-- I'm simply saying that they didn't meet my unskilled and highly subjective criteria.

Other things I learned:
You will waste a lot of tube initially. I ended up buying a software program called BendTech EZ 3D that took the guesswork out of where to bend the tube. If you measure properly, it will tell you down to the fraction of an inch and to 1-degree where and how much to bend a tube. But even when you do that, you'll need to redo a tube or two.

Start with the main hoop. Test fit your seat (pay attention to the angle that's comfortable with your helmet on and whatever head and neck restraint you want to use) and decide where you want your hoop in relation to your seat, the harness bar height, if you want a full diagonal or if you want to offset the diagonal for some headrest clearance, etc.

Weld as much of this main hoop outside of the car as you can (like the diagonal and the harness bar). It saves you from having to weld upside down unnecessarily.

Dont be afraid to cut holes in your floor to drop the cage down through so you can get the full radius welds up top of the cage. Slide the 4 legs of the cage back up into the car, weld up the pan holes, and slip your spreader plates underneath the tubes to reinforce that section of floor.

use ratchet straps to pull tubes together and hold tubes in place for you to weld them into position.

Don't be surprised if it takes you all day to notch both ends of a door bar to get a good fit. Don't ever rush the notching process and expect to get it right in one or two cuts. Sneak up on the proper fit and use a rubber mallet to hammer tubes into position. I can just about make a cage that holds itself together without welding. But it takes time.

I say give it a go but have a skilled welder do the finish welding. Take your time. Think it through in a mathematical, order-of-operations manner. There are some welds that will need to come before others.

After you do one cage, you'll want to start a second one!

Edited by Spank on 10th Oct, 2014.

What about equipment? Clearly a tube bender and notcher are need to be bought / borrowed; anything else?

For someone whose welded bodywork, is it a big jump to do a cage? What Capacity / current range is needed to MIG and would you concider TIGing a cage.

If you had all the equipment, what's the cost in straight tube compared to a ready made cage?

Edited by PhilR on 10th Oct, 2014.

The tube is still very expensive on its own. A bender capable of doing the job is way out of reach of most peoples pockets and would cost more on its own than a pre bent kit.. Welding needs to be done by someone who knows how to weld (its nothing special if you know what your doing tho the hard bit is doing the bends and notches.)

I've done a couple of cages in historic touring cars and theres been no kind of homologation or testing just scrutineering at the race. I assume you only need that for FIA events?

In my opinion a un-notched kit is the best way. Got all the bends done but if its a decent kit you can still get it to fit damn close. Notchers are cheap and you can fettle with a grinder to get things spot on anyway. It dose however require a healthy dose of fabrication and welding skill. Don't think it will be a quick job! X

Dont scrimp on the tube... you may be looking at getting tube from some place local, it may be CDS tube, but it can be the wrong type. There's hydraulic CDS and there's mechanical CDS, you should only be using mechanical CDS for rollcages.
That said, I would recomend getting your tube from Pro-Formance metals in Daventry, their ROPT510 tube exceeds the tensile strength required for regulations, and supply a lot of manufacturers i believe.
http://www.proformancemetals.co.uk/ropt510tube.html

David.

Ive done 2 cages but very simple ones x on the rear x door pillars and a dash bar and a six points cage then fitted quite a few bolt in ones.but these were for show as they weren't botherd about racing.as ive never been in a event for racing I dont know the ins and outs so im a newby to this, also I cant ask a nearby racer as there aint any or there very low profile in the Leicestershire area.as for welding im very good mig and reasonable tig now but Id more than likely tac the cage and ask a friend to finish it (qualified welder )
Dose anyone know of a fabricator in Leicestershire? That would do it as a alternative option?

Buying the equipment is definitely cost-prohibitive if you are just going to do 1 or 2 cages. The cost of materials (here in the US) is about 1/3 or even 1/4 the cost of a finished cage professionally installed.

I've never used a tube notcher- I just use a slitting disc in a grinder, cut the tube with 2 45° angles so it is almost pointed, then just round off the corners and you will find it is a perfect fit. Once you do one or 2 it is easy to do.

www.topcatcustom.co.uk

I looked at custom cages and bolt in recently. I went for a bolt in sd cage with the harness bar , door bars and the dash bar.
The custom cage route is more acceptable if the shell is stripped and waiting for galls and paint, we'll IMO as even if you get custom cages to fit it there isa lot of welding needed and so they wanted everything removed from the car.

It was my first cage install and the bolt in was a good fit IMO.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Thanks for all the advice
Would anbody know of company's In Leicestershire area that can do cages as I dont think im going to have time

Been quotes slightly over 1000 pound suppled and fitted is this good price ?

What are you getting for that? Seems cheap if fitted, my cage was about 800 with the harness bar, door bars and the dash bar.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

[quote=gr4h4m,16th Oct, 2014]What are you getting for that? Seems cheap if fitted, my cage was about 800 with the harness bar, door bars and the dash bar. [/quote
Exactly the same as custom cages mutipoint/miglia cage I thought it was cheap but the chap seem g
To know his sfuff and ive herd good reports so looks like its going there ]