Crunching into 2nd (again!!!) 24.08 - Still working.
Turbo Mini Forums

So

Having built up a gearbox last year with new clubman gearset, quaife lsd, windage tray and generally the best set of bits I could throw at it I was expecting it to be a while before trouble struck.

200 miles later 2nd and 3rd baulkrings had worn out, with 1st and 4th looking worn. Fair enough, a dodgy batch of NOS rings, I put that down to a friday afternoon heat treatment. I replaced all baulkrings for known good used ones, checked there was ample clearance between the gear face lobbed it back together and confident that would be the end of the issue.

Now it is crunching into 2nd again and i am thouroughly pissed off with it. Everythign has had the clearances checked, and adjusted. Clutch is good and does not seem to be dragging.

Everthing was a known and tested component this time round, and while the selector forks may be a touch worn it didn't knock a set of rings out in 45k miles before the rebuild, so not even convinced that is the issue, by say tipping the syncro hub onto the gear.

I'm gonna pull the engine this weekend for the 4th fucking time in 12 months, and see whats what. Any ideas on what else to investigate?

Edited by minimole23 on 24th Aug, 2015.

Are you using a quick shift?

No, just a home brew internal gear linkage. that has been the same for 3 years.

Edited by minimole23 on 19th Mar, 2015.

Mine knocked out 2nd straight away and ive not stripped it yet but i have a inkling i might have got the hub fitted backwards? If that is even possible! I remember they have a ring on one side so are not symmetrical but are not far off. Just wondering if you had checked?

i would replace the syncrobe 2nd and third hub, and deffo replace the home brew internall gear linkage to a standard one ........... , my monies on thats the cause of all your troubles

I've had the same issues 18 months ago if you can remember...

Mine was a dodgey set if baulk rings and I had a quick shift fitted.

Replaced the baulk rings for good used ones and took out my quick shift and it's been perfect ever since

Matt W

Matt, he has already replaced the rings with good used ones though suggesting it could be something else (not saying its not down to bad luck on a second set of rings mind)

Who made the gear set ?

Metric is for people who can't do fractions.

Steve, The gear linkage is fine, plenty of uj's and 5 engine stedies so the engine isn't moving at all. It was fine for 3 years without knocking out 2 sets of rings in 500 miles. Also I have welded the hole up for the original!

The gearset was sourced from minispares at the tail end of 2013. I will investigate everything much more intensely this time round.

So, a strip down reveals that the baulking on 2nd is shot again, worn to the gear face. Probably gonna want a new 2nd gear now too for good measure. 3rd baulkring is looking worn, but will confim with some other spares tomorrow. 1st and 4th again seem good.

I have checked everything was assembled the correct way round.

Next stop will be some really detailed inspection, a good clean up and some more head scratching.

What is an acceptable side clearance between gear face and baulkring for a new vs worn ring?

I know from experience, you can't successfully fit the main shaft assembly into the box with either of the synchro hubs on the wrong way round.

are the dogs on the baulk rings still in good nick... there seemed to be some variable heat treatment on some a while ago... you could see much smaller heat treated area compared to a good one. This is a worrying trend.. Did you take a small amount off the back to help engagement?

Wernt minispares testing some new superduper ones?

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Dragging clutch?

Yes i moved to the darkside

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ALWAYS check the dog teeth on the synchro hubs and gears. If these are worn, they need to be replaced. A good synchro rings will not rectify this.

What you could do, is having 0.5-1.0mm taken off the rear face of the old baulk rings. Cheaper than buying new ones

Vegard, how would worn dog teeth result in crunching, I could understand difficult engagement. I will admit the syncro teeth wern't perfect but more than usable, again had been fine until I changed the gears themselves.



2nd baulkring was shot, 3rd looking a bit worn. 1st and 4th were fine, but obviously do less work. The surface on 2nd gear looks pretty suspect. Think I'm gonna have to replace it.

Now given 2 gears are suspect and no ones been up in arms about a bad batch I will have to assume it is a car related issue. Regarding clutch drag I turned the engine off and it will roll easily in gear with the clutch depressed, unless theres anything else to check I'm a bit stumped.

It's not the first time I've seen gear cones like that. Don't know why it happens. I'd send it back to where you bought it.

From those photos it seems the cone on the gear itself is clearly the issue, not the baulk ring (unless there is something so bad about the baulk ring material or heat treatment that it has chewed up the cone).

How far does a brand new baulk ring slide up the damaged cone ?

I have never seen them worn like that.

The dog teeth (if that was the issue) play a part because the taper on the leading edge affects how the locking ring slides over.

Also worth looking at the equivilant bit inside the locking ring.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

This is the olf second gear from the metro van.



Had a crunch on the down change and hard upchanges. The baulk ring was as smooth as silk and snapped...

Well thats bloody worrying for brand new gears, that were carefully, cleanly assembled, and run with good oil.

Rod, the new baulkring I have lying round has good clearance, trouble is so did the ones that are now looking worn.

I've run out of good spares now too. Will have to bite the bullet and buy some of the new posh ones from minispares. Will see what they say about the gear.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

The gear Andy has shown was an old Minispeed one from an ST ratio gearset.

Came out of the van.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

Returned 2nd and 3rd to the supplier, along with all damaged baulk rings, so will report back the verdect.

Edited by minimole23 on 28th Mar, 2015.

Well, very pleased with minispares customer service.

Got an email today saying 2 new gears and a pair of competion baulk rings are in the post.

That should hopefully solve matters.

Good news. I always say the test of a supplier is when things go wrong. Clearly minispares appreciate customer service