Negative Camber
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi guys,

So the mini mini is MOT'd and back on the road after 2 years off. I've got a problem though which is I've taken the min to a laser wheel alignment as it's not handling right and I have -2.14degree negative camber on the near side and -1.43 negative camber on the off side. The trouble is I've got adjustable bottom arms but there adjusted as far as they can go. Can anyone enlighten me into why this would be. I'm running 7x13's.

Cheers

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What arms are they?

Are you positive they are adjusted correctly?

I ran my car very low on some adjustable arms I have even tubbed the front arches and managed to get it to 1.00deg each side.

Have you checked the caster? My guess is that it's just as uneven as the camber.

Adjusting the caster affects the camber and vise versa.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

The adjustable bottom arms... are they rose-jointed or poly bush type? If poly bushes, how central does the pin currently sit in the bush?

How would you describe the handling? The printout says you're running a touch of toe-in at the front and a toe-out at the back?? Pretty sure that's the wrong way around and would make cornering a little crazy.

Edited by PhilR on 5th Jun, 2015.

Laser alignment is as good as the guy operating it, and in your case the guy unfortunately seems a complete numpty!


To start of with the rear ( that hasn't been touched):

Your rear axle toes IN slightly which is good, although the rear right wheel is at almost 0 ( straight ahead). Dialing the rear towards 0 makes it more loose / oversteery .....toe OUT on the rear however is outright dangerous.

Your rear camber in itself is ok-ish, with zero camber on the left and almost half a degree negative on the right. Compared to the agressive camber on the front, the rear is a bit on the low side. What sort of brackets did you use on the rear to achieve current settings?

And now the front:

The only thing that has been adjusted is the toe....and very strangely adjusted as such with the right wheel toeing OUT and the left wheel toeing IN. The initial measurement was the other way around....what sort of drug was the mechanic on???

First thing to do is get your car to an alignment place that can at least equalise your front toe.

Then there's the camber: you mention the adjustable arms are at the end of their adjusment? What do you mean by this....are they both adjusted in such a way to give maximum negative camber? If so the solution is to dial back the most negative side (left) to match the right camber figure which at -1.75 degrees is fine in itself.

My advise: get the front toe sorted, equalise camber to -1.75 and have a test drive. If the rear end still feels a bit too loose fit KAD rear brackets to adjust the right rear towards more toe IN and increase negative camber on both sides towards -0.75 degrees.

Edited by Evoderby on 6th Jun, 2015.

From the picture, my interpretation is that, because the castor figures and graphs are greyed out (instead of pretty red and green like all the others) they didn't actually measure it and the figures are just middle of the measureable range.

And like Wil says, you really need to know what the castor is before worrying about the camber (especially if you have adjustable tie rods as well as adjustable lower arms or you have a subframe of unknown history).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi All,

Firstly can I just say thank you for your help with this. I'm feeling a little deflated with the whole situation as I cant drive the car as it does not feel safe.

Let me tell you all the longer story, please bear with me.

So back in 2013 the car was on the road after many many years. I took into a wheel alignment centre and after being there I posted this thread.

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=525133

Now in the here and now, the car is back on the road after 2 years and I have fitted 13x7 wheels. I had previously 13x6 spots pack wheels.
The issue with the caster on the nearside wheel was never resolved and the larger wheel made the problem more obvious.
I will upload some photos in a moment to show you that the nearside wheel was sitting further forward than the offside. I don't know why this is although i'm almost certain its not the front end or arch which is doing this as the measurement from the back of the wheel to the inner arch was different.
So here's the bit that im worried about telling you all.
To push the wheel back so the measurement was equal I lengthened the near side tie bar as you see in the coming photos.
I realise this will have an effect on the camber but would it have this that much of an effect?

Now moving on, the offside has not been touched at all in-between the two wheel alignments. Yet the latest one shows its completely different. Could this be down to the different wheels?? I just don't know.

Rod your right that the caster was not checked the second time round and yes the guy was a bit of a plonker but in his defence he did not adjust the toe as that would of meant charging me the £41. The before and after figure came from the fact I had to move the steering wheel round a bit as when fitted it couldn't have been central.

Phil from the photos you can see the type of bottom arm I believe it to be a rose jointed type.

Also from the photo you can see the bottom arm adjusted fully. The only way I can see of getting more adjustment to bring the wheel in is to put a thinner nut on there but im not sure if that will be enough.

Im not that fussed with regard to tyre ware as I only cover a few thousand every year I just want it to handle properly.

As you can probably tell and please forgive my ignorance in this department I don't have enough knowledge to know what the next step is. Im more than happy to take it to someone who will be able to help me out with the right equipment to set it up so its drivable.

Thanks again for your time on this gents. I.ll get the photos on next.

Here u go

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The first wheel alignment two years ago then the current one

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Under the car

sorry it wont let me upload any more for some strange reason. I 'll try again later to upload the ones of under the car.

Having another try

Just from a very quick look at the new photo of the previous alignment check it seems the castor was well out on the front left and never corrected.

And not checked this time.

Do you have adjustable tie rods and is the subframe good - front left is the most obvious place for the tie rod bracket at the corner of the subframe to be bent (kerb damage, potholes etc. usually take out the left suspension parts).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi Rod,

I'm going to open up a new thread to see if I can upload these other photos. The tie bars are adjustable and are straight. The bottom arms are adjustable and new. The subframe was removed, powder coated etc and there were no signs of it being twisted or anything like that.

Judging by the way your ftront wheels sit in their arches something seems really off.

It would be good to measure the distance of the wheel centers front to back to get an idea whether your front suspension / subframe is misaligned, or whether your GRP flipfront is a crooked reference point.

BTW the photos in your new thread don't show

I know, that's why I went down the road of extending the near side bar to push the wheel back into the inner arch to the same measurement as the other side. I will measure centre to centre today and report back.