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Home > A-Series EFI / Injection > New to EFI conversion

Barrieri

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Ok then, and when you wire two channels to one injector do you need to place a diode on the channels ? Because I think I would have to do that for the spark eventually.

But as you said, its better if I sort out the configuration first.


Paul S

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No need for diodes on the injectors. Someone on here has already tested the method of combining the injector outputs.

I don't think that you need them on the coil either. In fact, if you have the coil working OK then no need to change it.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
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I was just thinking about that for the spark because with the type of coil pack I'm using, since it only consists of two coils, the same coil must be firing twice consecutively.


Paul S

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It is designed to do just that.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

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Member #: 11231
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I think I have figured out why I'm lacking so much power. I noticed that I have a lost sync count of 1.

I'm running a 36-1 trigger wheel on the crank and 1 tooth cam wheel. Both sensors are VR. Lost Sync Reason:2 ... So I guess the ECU is not identifying the cam wheel.

Any ideas what i should do ? I followed the ms3 hardware manual so far. Removed the JP7 jumper and turned R11 and R32 seven and a half turns anti-clockwise


beejay

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Derby

have a look in the tooth logger to confirm there are separate traces for both the crank sensor and cam sensor.
Have you configured for dual wheel mode in Ignition Options and selected the right input? Assume you're using the MS3X cam input?


Paul S

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If the Lost Sync Count is only 1, then there is not a lot wrong.

It's a good idea to turn on Noise Filtering.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Paul S

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On 27th Mar, 2016 Barrieri said:
I think I have figured out why I'm lacking so much power.


You're probably not getting any fuel in the outer cylinders.

What have you done about the injection timing ??

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Good news :)) Today I started out by tweeking a bit the ignition configuration and also changed the spark output from A and C to A and B.

After such changes the engine run quite well I guess. Unfortunately up till now I only have one wideband on the outer two cylinders. And I could notice that at times the engine is running quite good but I have an issue which I haven't yet solved.

When the engine is idling and the AFR is around 13, and I press slightly on the throttle, the outer two cylinders run very lean (about 20) and the engine sounds as if it is working on the inner two pistons. Then if I stay at that same TPS, after a split second the engine runs back at four pistons and the AFR settles to 13 as it should. I tried to resolve this issue by enabling the acceleration enrichment and I guess it helped slightly, but still not to my expectations.

By the way, the cam signal is now reading.


Barrieri

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These are the crank and cam signal


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Paul S

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On 28th Mar, 2016 Barrieri said:
When the engine is idling and the AFR is around 13, and I press slightly on the throttle, the outer two cylinders run very lean (about 20) and the engine sounds as if it is working on the inner two pistons. Then if I stay at that same TPS, after a split second the engine runs back at four pistons and the AFR settles to 13 as it should. I tried to resolve this issue by enabling the acceleration enrichment and I guess it helped slightly, but still not to my expectations.


The hesitation on applying some throttle is called "Tip-in". It can be tuned out using the VE Map and AE.

But you need to get the basic fuel distribution sorted first.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Yes I tried playing around slightly with the VE table.

With regards to the basic fuel distribution I guess I'm on the right track. Are there any other settings which I'm missing ?


Paul S

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On 28th Mar, 2016 Paul S said:

What have you done about the injection timing ??

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Regarding ignition timing I have used channels A and B and set as per attachment. However I have not yet altered much in the ignition table.


Attachments:

Edited by Barrieri on 28th Mar, 2016.


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Oh sorry you meant injection timing, I misread it. To be honest I'm not very sure of what it is all about. Currently the table is as per attachment.


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Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Do you think I should vary the injection table to account for the tip-in problem ?


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Do you think I should vary the injection timing table to account for the tip-in problem ?

Edited by Barrieri on 28th Mar, 2016.


Paul S

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On 28th Mar, 2016 Barrieri said:
Do you think I should vary the injection table to account for the tip-in problem ?


No, Tip-in is a separate issue.

On 28th Mar, 2016 Barrieri said:
To be honest I'm not very sure of what it is all about.


To be honest, you need to stop at this point and do some reading and understand the fundemental problems of injecting a siamese port engine.

On the A-Series, the holy grail is getting enough fuel into the outer cylinders. This can be done by injecting through the inlet valve when it is open. Hence the injection event needs to ocurr at a specific point of the engine cycle.

Have a read of this:
http://jbperf.com/sequential/Fuel_Injectin...e_A_Series.html

In the meantime, use this table as a guide. This might stop you from damaging the engine:



This is for a 998 using Mpi injectors and manifold, so should be in the right ball-park. It's for a boosted application but the 0 to 100 load figures are proven.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

I have read this quite a long time ago, but as you said its best to do some good reading on the matter to make things clearer. Thanks again mate :)


Barrieri

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Member #: 11231
Senior Member

I was reading through your article Paul and noticed this "The cam sensor ensures that the ECU knows when No. 1 cylinder is on itís inlet stroke, rather than the power stroke." I've set my cam sensor in line with the cam tooth when cylinder 1 is at compression TDC. I read it from the ms3x hardware manual. Do I need to change it to piston 1 intake TDC instead of compression ?


Paul S

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No, if the cam sensor is set as the MS manual, then it will be fine.

On 28th Mar, 2016 Barrieri said:
I was reading through your article Paul and noticed this "The cam sensor ensures that the ECU knows when No. 1 cylinder is on itís inlet stroke, rather than the power stroke." I've set my cam sensor in line with the cam tooth when cylinder 1 is at compression TDC. I read it from the ms3x hardware manual. Do I need to change it to piston 1 intake TDC instead of compression ?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Ok then


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

It is set such that the cam sensor is in front of the cam tooth when both valves of piston 1 are closed


Rod S

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Unless they have changed the manual since I set mine up, it used to say cam trigger should be approx 120 BTDC (assuming a crank wheel missing tooth 90 BTDC).

So composite log should look more like this (this is mine).



The cam trigger being three teeth (approx) before the crank missing tooth, obviously once every other engine revolution and ideally on No1 compression stroke (to keep the injector wiring in numerical order).

SchrŲdinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Barrieri

289 Posts
Member #: 11231
Senior Member

Regarding what you're saying I have a slight misunderstanding I guess... When I was setting my crank trigger wheel which is a 36-1, the procedure used was to put the 1st piston in compression TDC and from the first tooth (engine rotating in clockwise) I placed the crank sensor on the 10th tooth (counting anticlockwise). Which implies that there is 90deg from the first tooth to the crank sensor. However when then I was configuring the megasquirt ignition setup, I had to assign 270deg instead of 90deg.

Attached is the procedure adopted


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