INNOVATE
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi guys, around 6 months ago I bought two wideband Innovate MTX-L sensors. Everything seemed fine since then. Last weekend I was driving around in my Mini and one of the sensors all of a sudden began reading E8. I turned off the engine and after some minutes started again. The sensor read the AFR normally, but after around 2 minutes began reading E8 again.

I am now looking up in forums and they are stating that even when they changed the sensor to a new one, it still kept reading E8.

I have now contacted Innovate but haven't received a reply yet.

I don't think the sensor operated more than 30 hours in total and furthermore it is installed at the correct length as suggested by the manual and the car is not running excessively rich or lean. I wasn't even pushing it hard when the fault occured.

You haven't given them a great deal of time to respond to the issue

Good luck contacting them.

Send it back to where you bought it from.

edit: double post

Edited by Rob Gavin on 17th Oct, 2016.

Actually they responded this hour, but no satisfaction whatsoever. The reseller sent me to Innovate with the complaint and Innovate told me to deal with the reseller :@

I have the same issue at the moment.

Did over 700 miles with zero issues. Then after resetting the sensor as they say in the instructions it started reading the dreaded E8 code.

The only thing the instructions recommend (apart from replacing the sensor) is saying the sensor could be getting to hot so to fit an lambda extender, they're only £6 so I'll give that a go.

The only other thing apart from the lambda reset is that I advanced my timing, perhaps this is contributing in some way?

In my case I don't think it can be the sensor, because even when the car has not yet been started, it says E8.

Sale of goods act, google it, but I think I'm right in saying that your contract is with whom you paid the money to buy it, and the responsibility to sort it (and desk with the manufacturer if needed) lies with them.

Aside from that I've never heard anyone with a positive thing to say about Innovate stuff! I've always used AEM without issues.

Now I'm another one in the list mate. Not only the products didn't last long but also the aftersales service is really below expectation levels.

i love my innovate stuff its mega (but it is all lm1 first gen stuff.)

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Mine is an LSU 4.9

Did you check that the gauge firmware was set to the 4.9 sensor ?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

The sensor was running fine it just stopped all of a sudden. Also they told me to update the firmware and I did, but no luck :/

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Shaunas Innovate Lc2 had a low power error, had a quick look at all connections etc and for corrosion on the fusebox and didn't see any. Never ended up getting to the bottom of it. Has anybody else had that come up before?

Hi Rod, I built my manifold to have two sampling pipes 4mm ID routed to two chambers in the downpipe. The sensors are attached in these chambers. So this way I'm exposing the sensors to a pressure downstream of the turbo, but having it reading the AFR of the respective runner. Credits to Paul S for the setup. Unfortunately my budget haven't yet allowed me to buy EGT sensors, although I wish to.

At the University thermodynamics lab where I'm conducting my masters degree we have several NGK widebands on our engines, and believe me they are in far worst setups than what the Innovate is exposed on my Mini, but we never had a single failure.

Your sample system seems pretty similar to mine, and Paul's and others.
So you should have pressure and temperature under control (at least within acceptable limits).

No need for EGT sensors if you use a controller that reads the internal cell temperature direct from the LSU.

I'm not surprised about your uni experience with anything else but Innovate.

From what I've seen it seems Innovate is the issue.

But you will only find negative on internet forums, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who think Innovate are great.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi Rod S, what 14point7 wideband do you have ? Today I was browsing their webpage and I noticed that their controllers only cost between 75 USD and 100 USD, which is basically the cost of an LSU4.9 sensor. So I recon if a 14point7 controller still operates an LSU4.9 after Innovate has killed it, its better to actually buy a controller from 14point7 instead of a sensor for my Innovate XD I can't keep on buying sensor for every thirty hours of testing :p

I use the SLC-OEM modules. I must point out though that they are NOT a standalone controller, they are a controller module that basically has to be plugged into a carrier board to provide the power and output interface(s). I use them because (a) they have a digital output which is potentially a lot more accurate than the usual 0-5V analogue and (b) the digital output includes the LSU cell temperature. The digital output goes to one of Jean's IOx's which is the interface between the MS2 and a bank of LED displays.
So mine is not a straightforward off the shelf setup...

Most people in the Megasquirt world who use 14point7 stuff seem to chose the Spartan which is available in a 4.9 version.

Also, their ability to still read an LSU which Innovate reports as failed is not guaranteed, it is something Alan (the owner of 14point7) has said will happen in many cases and quite a few people have confirmed it but, as I say, no guarantees. I tried two that had been reported as "dead" by an Innovate controller and one was still dead to my 14point7 stuff but the other did work. How long it might last is another question because it isn't clear what the Innovate controller has done to them that causes it to report them dead.
Having said that Alan sells the LSUs at a very reasonable price if you buy them with one of his controllers (Last time I looked anyway).

If you have a search arond the MS-E forums you will find quite a few people commenting on 14point7. From a purely personal point of view I think they are technically one of the best but customer support has been patchy in the past (and that's putting it kindly).

If I was in your position I would wait to hear what Innovate have to say first.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I'm not a fan of inovate stuff, I had an LC1 which gave no end of trouble, the programable outputs would go haywire all the time and output crap to the ecu,

Binned it off for a VEMS gauge in the end and never looked back.

Thanks a lot Rod S, that is what I will do actually. Thanks also Joe C.

Any news?

I used a lambda extender (£6.50 off eBay), re-calibrated it, went for a run = no joy, still the same e8 error, seems to happen on lift off when slowing down for a junction etc...

Googled it again and found a thread on a Miata forum saying that the firmware update has worked for over two years with no issues:

http://www.miataturbo.net/ecus-tuning-54/i...ror-code-73089/

Tried it this afternoon and so far so good. Had to down grade the sensor as I'm running a 4.2 and then re-calibrate it but at the moment no issues. Before it seemed to jump to 22.4 on lift off and if it stayed there for more than a couple of seconds it showed e8, now it doesn't seem to be as touchy.

If the error starts coming up again the only other option is to move it down stream, but I know this doesn't help people that need two sensors on the manifold so they can sort out siamese injection issues.

Hey mate, yet still the same. I also tried to update the firmware but no luck.