Ph2 to 649
Turbo Mini Forums

Hey guys.

While my motor is out I am considering changing the cam from a ph2 to a 649. The car is mainly only used for track days. I am running 8.5cr, 1312cc, gt1752, benross built with one of his great heads.
I have had some great results from the ph2 cam which is a really good all rounder but I am after a cam more suited for the track.
I know there are some really knowledgeable lads on hear who do wonders with the A series.
I think timing the 649 in around 106 - 107 would being it in earlier and make for a really strong and wild power band.
What do you guys think or will it be a waste of time? I am always up for an experiment.
Any opinions and advice would be great.

Thanks,
Roy B

I think it will be shit

to elaborate, far to much duration, far too much overlap,

might get it close to working on an 8 port ground with a wider LCA and long intake and exhaust manifolds and turning to about 10k

I agree with Joe. You'll hate it. Long duration and overlap mixed with the low compression ratio of your engine will make a poor combination. The P2 will not limit you power wise.

Phil.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

what boost on that 8.5 cr?

I run it around 14psi.
Because it's mainly a track car I was just wondering if there was any other upgrade options worth looking at while it's in bits.
Thank for the replies, maybe looks like the 649 is not going to work well.

Stay with the phase 2 and up the boost?

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

You got mapped ignition already? If not that's where I'd invest for the track.

But like others are alluding to, 14psi is not exactly major, so try thinking more along the lines of 20psi and what you need to do to achieve that (probably very little apart from a rolling Road session - so long as the rest of your car is up to it )...

Edited by turbodave16v on 3rd Sep, 2017.

I run megajolt it gets set up on the rollers every time the motor is rebuilt. With the compression ratio 8.5 I think 15 psi would be on the limit. It made 172hp at 13psi.
I was trying to steer away from just upping the boost as I didn't want to make it too peaky.
What ever I decide to do I will make sure it's ready for castle combe at the end of the month.

up the boost, you should be able to whack 20psi + in there no issues as long as the fuel and advance is right and the inlet charge is cool enough

Holy shite! 20psi. Lol! That would make it go.
I use a cossy 4x4 intercooler and when on track I use a richer needle, an octane booster and really cool plugs to help protect the engine from det.

you should have no troubles then, just keep an eye on afr's,

worth a run at a RR to be sure, also whack your jolt map up here for checking

I'm on 8.7:1 and use 20+psi. Even when I was using it as a daily.

Just make sure your ignition timing is conservative and you have good high octane fuel.

In the 13's at last!.. Just

Phase 3? Or what about adding some 1.5 rockers to the phase 2

I have tried the newer ph3. Not a bad cam but with my set up there wasn't any gains over the phase 2.
Interesting about the 1.5 rockers though.
Cheers.

Longer duration like the P3 will tend to move the power higher. What's your rev limit ? Did the power drop off, or was it still climbing when you reached your max revs ?
Unless the head flows well at higher lifts and rpm, you might see little or no gain in adding 1.5 rockers.

Phil.

Edited by Turbo Phil on 4th Sep, 2017.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM

also for long duration cams you need to go for big turbo's,

With the newer version of that ph3 we timed it in at 110, and it did make the power higher in the rev range like you say. At that time the rev limit was set at 7200 and it would hit it very easily but we had to put another couple of psi into it to achieve the same power as the ph2. The ph3 would probably benefit from a bigger turbo.
I just find it interesting to see how people have got on trying different cams. I do realise the ph2 will take a lot of beating in a 1300.

What do you time the phase 2 at?
I timed mine in at 110 degrees and that pulls and pulls. Don't know on power. I have a few issues to sort before I go to the rollers 😂

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

this is a good point, you can knock the cam back a degree or two and sacrifice a bit off bottom for top end.

I seem to remember Iain running his miglia turbo at pod some years ago and hitting the rev limiter at nearly 9k with a ph2.

Where is Iain these days?

My rev counter is erratic at higher rpm so not sure what revs I'm doing. But cursing at 80mph then flooring it, it still has plenty of oomph! (On track of course) that's with a 3.1 FD and long ratio box

Edited by JT on 4th Sep, 2017.

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

mostly playing ith steam engines or snowbarding according to FB!

Mine with the 266 in and old t3 didn't want to stop revving !!
I've not had much running with the new set up to comment .
What sort of extra power / range are you wanting Roy ? Top end , bottom end or up the revs etc
I never had a problem wil lag last year and mine wasn't on boost while 4K but I was running a 3.7 on 10's !! It just topped out too earlie

Hi Rick.
Don't get me wrong, it's not that I am unhappy with the way it goes. It's set up lovely for the road, picks up nice and early and pulls very strong up to about 6.5 then it tails off. Now the car is mainly used for track days I was up for experimenting with a different cam which I don't mind if it's a wild one. Maybe just timing the ph2 to 110 will let it rev more which would make for a fun track car. The engine is in bits at the moment because I cooked the oil at Mallory and it knackered the idler gear, and the thrusts which buggered the crank. It was a hot day and I was running a front splitter which stoped the cool air running under the gearbox. I do have an oil cooler which does need ducting better though.