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Home > Help Needed / General Tech Chat > Supercharged R1 project

LukeH

9 Posts
Member #: 11802
Junior Member


Okay so it's not a turbo but it is forced induction!

I am new to the forum, long time member of TMF. I've been working on my mini project for far more years than I can to remember but things have stepped up a gear recently. The shell is booked into a body shop from Jan 2019 for a full restoration and I've decided that a supercharged R1 install could be an interesting project. I have owned the R1 engine for a few years with the intention of sticking it in the mini.

I have been looking into the feasibility of this and so far it seems like itís doable. I have a few challenges to overcome;

- Find a suitable way to connect a pulley to the engine crank Ė more on that below
- Select a suitable supercharger Ė current thinking is Eaton M45, probably from a Merc rather than Bini.
- Get it all to fit in the cramped engine bay. I am constrained by Promotive engine cradle kit engine placement.

I have found a couple of similar projects that have created a custom crank cover that connects a custom shaft to the crank via a cush drive so I am thinking thatís the way for me to go. I can easily design parts up in CAD and 3d print prototypes. I have a friend who works in the F1 supply chain who has a machine shop that might be able to help out with maching the parts.

The best place for me to hook up to the crank looks like the timing chain cover. This is mainly due to it being on the side of the engine that has the least stuff going on i.e not affected by the chain drive, diff and gear selector.

My first big challenge is getting measurements of the gap between the mounted engine, Pro-mo cradle and mini subframe. I donít have the Pro-mo kit yet and probably wonít for a few months and the shell is going off to the bodyshop soon. I am hoping I can get someone with a Pro-mo mini to take some pictures and measurements for me so I can get stuck in whilst the shell is away.

If anyone is interested I will keep posting updates.

Luke.


gr4h4m

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Chester

Sounds exciting! I think the r1 on its own will be a handful let alone boosting it, but maybe Iím getting old

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!


wil_h

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Betwix Harrogate and York

I'm not sure I use an Eaton M45. Far better with a Rotrex, the TTS kit looks like a good start, although expensive.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack of imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


LukeH

9 Posts
Member #: 11802
Junior Member

On 3rd Oct, 2018 wil_h said:
I'm not sure I use an Eaton M45. Far better with a Rotrex, the TTS kit looks like a good start, although expensive.


The kit does look good and a little pricey. I wouldn't be able to use that kit in it's current form due to space limitations mounting the charger low down.

The Eaton doesn't require an oil feed and it should be good for about 10psi of boost (subject to pulley ratios) which should allow me to keep stock head gasket and injectors. I can also mount it higher up in the engine bay and then should have room to run the inlet pipework via an intercooler.

Luke


jonny f

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Dorking

Just a suggestion, get the engine done and in the car before taking it to the body shop. Working on an engine swap of that kind with it painted will be a massive ballache. Much better to get it fitted up then take it out for paint.

Sounds like a nice project.


wil_h

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Betwix Harrogate and York

Oil feed is easy. Don't let that put you off. On my Kawasaki engine I just unscrewed the oil gallery plug and stuck a union in it.

Return can go to any of the engine covers.

The Eaton will be a slug on a small bike engine and not give you the results you're probably after.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack of imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


LukeH

9 Posts
Member #: 11802
Junior Member




On 3rd Oct, 2018 jonny f said:
Just a suggestion, get the engine done and in the car before taking it to the body shop. Working on an engine swap of that kind with it painted will be a massive ballache. Much better to get it fitted up then take it out for paint.

Sounds like a nice project.


Only issue with that idea is it's a bare shell. Absolutely nothing attached. It's receiving a full respray inside and out including colour change.


LukeH

9 Posts
Member #: 11802
Junior Member




On 3rd Oct, 2018 wil_h said:
Oil feed is easy. Don't let that put you off. On my Kawasaki engine I just unscrewed the oil gallery plug and stuck a union in it.

Return can go to any of the engine covers.

The Eaton will be a slug on a small bike engine and not give you the results you're probably after.


Any other SC's I should consider other than rotrex?

I'm new to forced induction so on a steep learning curve. What characteristics am I looking for when selecting a suitable charger beside volume it can shift?

I found a couple of bike engine projects running Aisin AMR's which are fitted to Japanese Subaru compact cars - no idea if they are any good.


wil_h

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Betwix Harrogate and York

I suggest a bit more reading on the different types of superchargers. There are few different types. The links below are worth a read.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.p..._page=page&id=7

http://mechstuff.com/how-superchargers-wor...es-limitations/

The Rotrex is centrifugal, the Eaton and AMR are positive displacement, Roots type.

For me, the key to super/turbocharging is efficiency. Simply put, how much heat is generated when the air is compressed. For this you need a centrifugal compressor.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack of imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


jonny f

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Dorking

On 3rd Oct, 2018 LukeH said:



On 3rd Oct, 2018 jonny f said:
Just a suggestion, get the engine done and in the car before taking it to the body shop. Working on an engine swap of that kind with it painted will be a massive ballache. Much better to get it fitted up then take it out for paint.

Sounds like a nice project.


Only issue with that idea is it's a bare shell. Absolutely nothing attached. It's receiving a full respray inside and out including colour change.


Why is that an issue? Perfect time for a dry build.


robert

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uranus

i would use the eaton .


medusa assembled..first drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMvQQm7Cn4&t=5s


wil_h

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Betwix Harrogate and York

Yeah, but somehow you'd get it making a million BHP and no-one would understand how!!!

If I tried, it'd melt a piston before I got it in gear*smiley*


On 4th Oct, 2018 robert said:
i would use the eaton .

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

www.twin-turbo.co.uk

On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:

the design shows a distinct lack of imagination,
talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol

On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry.


robert

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uranus

oh wil !


medusa assembled..first drive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMvQQm7Cn4&t=5s


LukeH

9 Posts
Member #: 11802
Junior Member

This project is looking is more viable. A Promotive R1 owner over on tmf kindly took a few photos of his engine install so I could study them and try and work out where to position a pulley on the engine.

It looks like the timing chain cover can be used as a suitable way to gain access to the crank. Behind this cover is a timing trigger wheel (not sure of the correct name) that has a bolt attaching it to the crank. I figure I can use a cush drive coupling, the same as used by an eaton SC to connect the rotors to the snout, to connect a pulley through a custom machined timing chain cover.

I've started modelling up a new timing chain cover that will incorporate a bearing and oil seal mounts for a new pulley and shaft. I plan to 3d print the parts to test fit and check for alignment, clearance etc..

It looks like it will be necessary to modify the subframe to create enough clearance for the pulley and I might have to modify one of the engine mounts. I'm not over concerned about this as the promotive subframe is a modified mini subframe anyway.

The orientation of the R1 engine means the crank will be turning clockwise with the pulley and belt positioned on the right hand side which is the side I would need to mount the supercharger pulley and I believe is the correct rotation for the pulley on an Eaton M45 if I choose to go that route.

Clearly still a very long way to go. Next step is to buy an old supercharger so I can tear it down and take measurements of the bearing housing, oil seal and pulley shaft.

Edited by LukeH on 11th Oct, 2018.

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