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Home > 998cc > 998 to get 60-80 bhp

avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
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im doing my mini now, its a shell, and im thinking it would be good as a 998 but with a turbo... If i was to do this, its not for max power, its for being more drivable. I dont want blue pipes everywhere, or any of that, just a little more uumph!


I dont want to mod the bulkhead, and ive seen these mirage manifolds but what actually do i need to do? I am thinking of, very small turbo, no bulkhead mods, small efi throttle body, microsquirt, to get about 60-80 bhp.


thanks!


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

Mirage has stopped doing manifolds I think, but Google fusion fabs, they will do similar.

Your 80 hp is perfectly achievable, and can be done on a carb ok, essentially, a good rebuilt a+ bottom end and a moded head and an intercooler will get you there with about 10 psi boost

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

is there anything inside of the motor needed doing?

Will it be really reliable at that power too?

A carb would be good too, i just thought the efi would be more compact, but not essential.. I dont mind making the manifolds myself, just point me in the right direction please!

what turbo would i need?


avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

right got it thankyou

https://www.fusionfabs.co.uk/stainless-range

*wink*))))))))))))))))))))))


jonny f

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2026 Posts
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Post Whore

Dorking

Engine wise for that power, a half decent set of pistons and a suitably lowered CR would really be all you would need. Along with a refreshed engine.

Id stick with a carb. Mapable ignition would be a must imo, megajolt is very popular here.

Would be a lovely motor!


avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

engine will be fully rebuilt before it goes in, its a full hit resto, mini dis-advantage if you read tmf..


i think for the price of the igniton, megajolt is good but i think ill pay a bit more for microsquirt, ive fitted it to my bmw e36 with a volvo b230 engine, and it works very well, and i know it fairly well too now.


is it the strength to the pistons that ill need? flat tops wont work?


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

Yes it really comes down to the pistons, will H and Ben H hilclimbed a 998 turbo for years, and were putting out around 150hp, using production pistons, IIRC they used a 1275 head, but the prefered route would be a 12g295 head as it flows well and has big cghambers to get the compression down, I think you can run flat tops with this and get ok compression ratio.

for your 80 hp I think as long as you have a 3 ring piston rather than anything ancient you should be fine.

as above carb is easy, especially to get up and running, but is is nice to have the extra features of the microsquirt for logging, and if you know it already all the better.

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

the engine i have in mind is a 998cc A+ metro engine, i do have a 12g940 head that had been reconed recently in the loft not being used so maybe that would be a good one for it, or use the standard head and open the chambers up loads to get less compression.


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

With the 12g940 you don't want a large valve head, also depending in yhe cam you may need to pocket the block to miss the valves, with the 998 heads, I think they're quite a lot of work to get up to scratch, I think it's cheaper to get a 295 and get unconverted to unleaded.

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

is the work in the 998 head just porting? i can do that myself if it is.


what about these vnt turbos? I know nothing about them, but ive been told they can be very small but need management to run tehm, maybe the microsquirt can do that


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

well if your up to porting, then fine, but a lot of people bite of more thn they can chew on that front, IMO the most important part is the seat and throat area, lot of people assube the can just hog out the ports and make a race head.

Im one of the few here that has run a VNT, generaly they are vac/ecu acctuated these days, as on desils they tend to use the vac signal for the servo and map the bost with a solenoid, similar can be done with boost and a bleed valve, but IIRC your kinda reversing the function, desils have them fully open then map them shut, where as you'd have them shut and map tyhem open on a petrol, so its more prone to boost spikes etc, also dont try to run one with a ball type bleed valve in line, you get "interesting " response in that a bit of load can pull the engine on boost... ie in my case a slight hill on a motor way with the same throttle causes boost to come in and you gain 20mph on the same throttle.

i dont think VNT is worth it unless your looking to run a huge turbo and want to get boost low down, in my case it was a 1380, and a GT2559v from a renault espace 3.0dci, i could get that to boost from around 1700rpm, and make a bar by 3500 wich is pretty stonking for that size of turbo. i thjink with a straight gt15 you will be fine

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

right ok, i was just thinking about it, and i know the gt15 fits, and it looks kinda easy to do.

Im thinking of making my own manifold too, i have done stuff like that before but not for turbos. It dosnt need to make massive power, so i think basic head porting will be fine.

So apart from mods for the turbo, the engine will probably only do 50-60 bhp, so is there any need to upgrade the rest of it? I mean ill rebuild it, but i wont drive it like an animal, itll probably get a long diff for motorway work, so all this cross pin diffs and the likes i wont need? Its on 12" wheels, standard tyres, maybe will do 1000 miles a year .

thanks


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

a basic manifold like the mirage one shouldnt be to hard to do if youve done stuff like that before, you can use schedule 10 pipe, which is fairly thick.

I'm not 100+ up on small bore head mods, but with basic mods you can probably just throw a bit more boost at it to make the power if it falls short, main thing is comoression ratio, and an intercooler

for your 80 hp you should be fine with all the std stuff, if you were pushing 90hp+ i'd say start looking at x pin diffs,

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

why does everyone use stainless for the manifolds? Is it because of the extra weight of the turbo? i was thinking of modding a lcb i have, but maybe not a good idea? i thought it it was braced to the box it would be ok. i know there would be loads more heat.


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

just for corrosion resistance, Ive seen LCB manifolds last ok below is linked one, but the pics have become a victim of photobucket

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=327942

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

thanks again for the information.

think ill have a go on the lcb first and see how i get on. Im going to get a gt15 and use that i think. looking forward to see what happens !! thanks


avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

i have just bought this

CLICK HERE


looks the right one.


Now, looking at info on the internet on the metro turbo, it had no intercooler, and it ran the dizzy. What sort of power/driverbility difference would it be to use an ebay 100 new dizzy with coil leads etc, and a metro turbo plenum chamber to using an intercooler after market plenum, and say microsquirt. The difference is about 4-500... This engine is not for power, its about being a bit of fun, so i am thinking of keeping it simple...



Tom Fenton
Site Admin

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15251 Posts
Member #: 337
Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

&

TM legend.

Rotherham South Yorkshire

Where the dizzy is crap is that it has no form of timing retard compensation for boost whatsoever, this means the dizzy is a massive compromise in terms of power, also driveability. MegaJolt does all that you need for an a series ignition and nothing more hence why its popular on here. Any other ecu that can do ignition and retard the timing according to boost pressure is also fine.


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

yep that turbo looks the ticket, if you feel like it you can have a play with this turbo calculator to get you distracted *hehe!*

https://www.motorgeek.com/?fullpage=true&page=flowcalc

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

lol that looks too advanced for me to work!

so how bad where the metro turbo to drive as a car then? I mean they did sell them as a road car, where they jsut lacking really badly?


Joe C

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12242 Posts
Member #: 565
Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

they were ok, but tech moves on,

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

yes i can understand...

what about the intercooler situation? do you really need one? the metros did run one, and im only using a 998... I dont know how much it really affects the performance.

i know when i drive my rally car in the day its nothing like it is at night due to the air dencity.


avtovaz

14 Posts
Member #: 11944
Member

yes i can understand...

what about the intercooler situation? do you really need one? the metros did run one, and im only using a 998... I dont know how much it really affects the performance.

i know when i drive my rally car in the day its nothing like it is at night due to the air dencity.


jonny f

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2026 Posts
Member #: 9894
Post Whore

Dorking

You don't need an intercooler but you will be much better off with one. It's easy power and safer. Whats the point in going to all the effort of building a turbo motor from scratch to skimp on say 100 for an extra bhp and safety.


Tom Fenton
Site Admin

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15251 Posts
Member #: 337
Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

&

TM legend.

Rotherham South Yorkshire

To quote "Rat Bastard" Stevie Benross, "The intercooler is not the icing on the cake, its MORE CAKE!"


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂

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