| Page: |
| Home > Show Us Yours! > '77 Clubman rebuild | |||||||
 604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
12th Jan, 2020 at 08:23:14pm
On 12th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
Re. the TIG ceramic, I guess the only way you could modify it to get closer into the seam flanges would be with a diamond disc on an angle grinder - that's probably the only thing that would touch the ceramics, they are VERY hard. I don't think any alternative material could take the temperature for more than a couple of seconds. But a lot of risk trying. Hmmm, I have a diamond disc somewhere, I might try on a smaller No6 cup. I think these bought versions are No 8. I did actually try spot welding a couple of pieces onto the car today. Turning up the amps to 75 did not have the desired effect – it burnt a hole in the top material, regardless of the fact the bottom material was tight to it. So back down to 65 Amps and count of 2 welding, plus the downslope seems good. I have not yet tried changing the electrode profile though. So, after a slight disaster with the passenger wheel arch: ie - me welding it in in the wrong place, I had to remove it again and reposition it. but, because of the multiple rebuilds, it appears the existing rear quarter panel profile around the wheel arch is not correct, so rather than welding the whole wheel arch assembly and the wheel arch to heel board filler in solid, we decided to fit and secure with screws until we could fit up the new quarter panels. Since this can all be welded up with the car the right way up, it seems a better options than getting it wrong again. So today the car finally got turned back over and work started from front to back on the passenger side. Cut out the old door instep and a post panel, A post boxing panel, A post stiffener panel and dash rail, then fitted up the new parts. Amazingly it fits fairly well. 
There is however a small issue with the check strap hole – the check strap bracket on the door fouls on the outer edge of the hole in the A post panel, So the hole needs enlarging outwards – as per yellow on the below photo Without doing this, the door cannot come out far enough at the top to fit properly. 
Also, it appears that the new stiffener panel ( which is not a heritage part) is slightly the wrong dimensions. I have to try to get the stiffener panel slightly higher I think. You can see the paint scuffed off where the bottom part of the check strap bracket on the door touched and so the check strap will not line up correctly. I can then get this welded in permanently and start work on the rear quarter panel, wheel arches and companion box. I’ve also decided to replace the whole companion boxes with new, rather than repair panels, so they are now on order. Edited by Graham T on 12th Jan, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
 2618 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
12th Jan, 2020 at 11:19:36pm
I also had thoughts this afternoon about re profiling the ceramics and wondered about using I diamond disc.
|
||||||
 (2)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150672766@N03/]Rod Sugden[/url], on Fli) 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
14th Jan, 2020 at 09:19:21am
The thought of AC is interesting but my gut feeling would be no.
Edited by Rod S on 14th Jan, 2020. Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
||||||
|
2618 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
14th Jan, 2020 at 02:46:31pm
I also had thoughts of reversing the polarity to lift the weld but think the tungsten wouldn’t fare well / excessive ball forming?
|
||||||
|
Site Admin  15300 Posts Member #: 337 Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner & TM legend. |
14th Jan, 2020 at 03:45:44pm
Given the amount spent on panels I'd buy or borrow a spot welder to do them justice!!!
On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:
On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else Like fuel 😂😂 |
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
15th Jan, 2020 at 09:22:12am
On 14th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
…Looking at the full "Frost" kit, not just the ceramics themselves, They have got a pair of flat jaw clamp pliers with quite an interesting shape insomuch as they are actually flat/parallel when clamped. I don't know about yours Graham - you said you were going to drill a hole in some of your own - but the sets I've got aren't actually flat when clamping thin sheet material, they only touch at their tips - the full length of their tips but the two halves close together as a shallow inverted "V" (if that makes sense). So they clamp the bits together fine but they only make contact along a narrow straight line. The reason those "Frost" ones are the shape they are is most likely to take as much heat away as possible from either side of the "weld", especially once the weld is complete, so it doesn't have time to sag whilst it is still molten… Yes, that’s a good point, these sets I have are all angled, which I guess will not only NOT work well as a heat sink, but also potentially not hold the work pieces together nice and tight uniformly, so could end up with blowing out the top work piece. More thinking to do on that, regardless of using copper bar as a heat sink. On 14th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
EDIT - and one other thought, assuming you are using thoriated (or lanthinated) tungstens as it's mild steel, how about grinding them to a ball end, like you would the zirconiated ones (for AC/aluminium) instead of the traditional 45 degree point. Thoriated Electrodes. I did do some reading over the weekend and found a nice little diagram with the effect on the weld pool due to electrode shape/ angle. Basically a sharper longer point gives a wider weld bead, but less penetration and less able to cope with higher amps. A shorter, more blunt point gives a narrower weld bead, but with more penetration and more able to cope with higher amps before burning out the tip of the electrode. But I have not yet done any further experimentation. When I do, it will be using the shorter, blunter angle, or even balled end as you suggest. My thinking is this might penetrate better so the weld spreads in a larger diameter, and also reduces the amount of time I need to hold to get pentation through to the back of the bottom work piece. On 14th Jan, 2020 shane said:
I also had thoughts of reversing the polarity to lift the weld but think the tungsten wouldn’t fare well / excessive ball forming? Shane I also looked at DCEP v DCEN and AC v DC, but from what I had read, it would not make much difference. On 14th Jan, 2020 Tom Fenton said:
Given the amount spent on panels I'd buy or borrow a spot welder to do them justice!!! You can borrow mine if you come and get it. Thanks Tom. That’s a bit of a trek I think… But yes, I am still looking to borrow/ hire or buy (preferably borrow) something. This whole TIG spot welding discussion is really a fall back, unless I suddenly find some amazing formula for making it work perfectly. At this point though my main focus is on trying to shoe horn the passenger door into a hole it is too big to fit into… It looks like I am going to be buying the door repair panels (bottom frame) and door skins a little sooner than I expected, because I am hoping the existing skin, possibly being non genuine, is too big or something, otherwise I have a door about 6mm higher than the hole it is supposed to go into. The instep to roof gap is a fairly uniform 935mm (+/- 3mm) back and front on both sides of the car, so I am assuming it is the door itself with the problem. I can’t go and measure the door gap in the other mini though, because of the absence of the roof. But I do have some spare doors, which I need to go and fetch to measure up against these that came off this car. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
 6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
15th Jan, 2020 at 09:47:27am
welcome to come and measure stuff graham , even take one of my ally doors to compare. Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
||||||
|
Site Admin 15300 Posts Member #: 337 Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner & TM legend. |
15th Jan, 2020 at 10:03:22am
Plenty of welding clamps out there with swivel pads.
On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:
On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else Like fuel 😂😂 |
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
16th Jan, 2020 at 09:02:23am
On 15th Jan, 2020 robert said:
welcome to come and measure stuff graham , even take one of my ally doors to compare. Thanks Robert, but I think I now have it sorted. I tried fitting up the driver side door and that was a good fit, the door gaps as previously mentioned were neigh on identical in size, so it could only be the door itself… After a bit of measuring between doors it is obvious the doors /skins are different sizes. The drivers door measures 93mm from the bottom of the lower hinge to the bottom of the door skin. 
The passenger door same location measures 98mm. 2 spare doors Dad had, measure ~ 92mm and ~94mm Also, the check strap brackets, when compared to a spare door, are bent slightly outwards, or the doors have been strained around them. This is partly why the brackets do not fit inside the holes in the A pillar, but I think that can be corrected once the door skin is off. So after trimming the passenger door skin down to suit the size of the driver door, it all fits reasonable well. On 15th Jan, 2020 Tom Fenton said:
Plenty of welding clamps out there with swivel pads. Eg https://www.amazon.co.uk/Irwin-Original-Loc...la-382971043560 Tom, I have some like that, but I am not sure they are going to achieve what I am looking to do, or rather function in the way I would like them to, but I have an idea on how to make what I think I need. 
These are what are supplied as the full kit for the TIG Spot welding, I was loathed to pay the extra for the full kit as opposed to just the “nozzles”, not thinking about the requirements of flat clamping, supporting around the weld and heat sink. So, I now basically want to replicate this, which I will try to do with a set of normal grips and some steel… Edited by Graham T on 16th Jan, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
25th Jan, 2020 at 08:11:05pm
Not as tidy as the above, but still not too bad I think.
’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
26th Jan, 2020 at 09:36:41am
well done graham ,zooming along. Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
||||||
|
5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
26th Jan, 2020 at 11:37:58am
Looks good from above (it will never match the photoshopped version on the advert) but what about underneath ?
Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
26th Jan, 2020 at 08:29:02pm
On 26th Jan, 2020 robert said:
well done graham ,zooming along. Yes, overall, its going well I think. On 26th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
Looks good from above (it will never match the photoshopped version on the advert) but what about underneath ? Is the diameter/circumference still the same ? I have not measure Rod, but it looks fairly similar in diameter – maybe just a fraction smaller. 
On 26th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
And have you tried the MIG version yet ? I've never tried the TIG version but all the welds by my spot welder (with numerous arms) couldn't reach the MIG did a really good job (no drilling holes, just use as intended with the special shroud). No, I have not bought one yet. I am going to a restoration show next weekend, so I intend on looking for a spot welder, but also I’ll look for the MIG shroud just to give it a go. On 26th Jan, 2020 Rod S said:
But what you have seems close to the xPi spacing so should be at least as good as the factory welds if the underside is the same diameter. I measured the weld at ~4mm, but I have to admit the spacing is not exact - I did start at 10mm, but ended up at 1/2", only because 1/2" graduations were easier to see on the steel rule. There were a couple of spots where it blew out the top layer, mainly on the upright sections – I think holding the button a fraction of a second too long and it melted out. Easily rectified with the TIG and filler rod afterward. Edited by Graham T on 26th Jan, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
2618 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
27th Jan, 2020 at 05:09:43pm
You must be chewing through argon with method?
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
28th Jan, 2020 at 06:09:41pm
On 27th Jan, 2020 shane said:
You must be chewing through argon with method? The results do look quite neat tho. Shane Honestly, I did not take much notice of the gas used. I'm getting ready to start welding the other side up, so I will check what the usage is like. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
15th Feb, 2020 at 08:34:55pm
A couple of weeks worth of progress:
Edited by Graham T on 15th Feb, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
23rd Feb, 2020 at 07:18:15pm
Just the very briefest of updates for this week.
’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
 2091 Posts Member #: 9894 Post Whore Dorking |
29th Feb, 2020 at 07:55:12pm
looks great |
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
1st Mar, 2020 at 07:06:55pm
Cheers Jonny - Definitely starting to get there now.
Edited by Graham T on 1st Mar, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
 9311 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
1st Mar, 2020 at 08:19:54pm
There is some major work going on here, it will be good for many more years when finished.
|
||||||
|
2618 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
1st Mar, 2020 at 10:14:22pm
looks ace, the progress you're making makes my efforts of late look glacial.
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
2nd Mar, 2020 at 07:54:27am
On 1st Mar, 2020 Nic said:
There is some major work going on here, it will be good for many more years when finished. Have you done any work like this before? You are making it sound quite easy. Yes, the plan was to get it to a state where it would last a fair while without need to be rebuilt - at least in a major way. This is the 5th Mini rebuild I have now been involved with: This one twice before just as basic "budget" rebuilds. My dad rebuild a 'C' plate mayfair, which he put a turbo engine in, that is what got me back into Mini's after a long time - but I was just helping him. Then the Blue coupe which I took more of a lead in. That one was pretty complex with installing all the floor strengthening then cutting the roof off. But non of them as comprehensive a rebuild as this. I have to admit, having mostly new panels to work with does seem to make it all that much easier. On 1st Mar, 2020 shane said:
looks ace, the progress you're making makes my efforts of late look glacial. Shane. My plan, which is now bound to go awry, is for the shell to be totally complete by mid-May. That gives me the summer to complete the rest barring the engine install, then I can swap the engine out of the blue Coupe in the autumn/ winter. ’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
30th Mar, 2020 at 12:27:57pm
A small update on the last months work.
’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
11th Apr, 2020 at 08:57:04am
Mid weekend update.
’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
|
604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
11th Apr, 2020 at 09:01:30am
BTW, having never actually look closely at the later mini shells, can anyone tell me what the large hole at the bottom rear of the passenger companion bin is for?
’77 Clubman build thread
|
||||||
| Home > Show Us Yours! > '77 Clubman rebuild | |||||||
|
|||||||
| Page: |