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 967 Posts Member #: 3228 Post Whore North of the Netherlands |
11th Apr, 2020 at 09:01:44am
Very tidy job!
Dazed and Confused.... |
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 2619 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
11th Apr, 2020 at 09:34:07am
This is looking really good.
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 604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
30th Apr, 2020 at 06:20:18pm
Thanks Yo-han and Shane.
’77 Clubman build thread
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 6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
30th Apr, 2020 at 07:57:18pm
don't know if its the same one ,but veronica's tvr s2 is brooklands green graham , very dark . Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
30th Apr, 2020 at 08:01:18pm
ah no... i think hers is HFB 753 Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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2619 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
30th Apr, 2020 at 09:11:38pm
Graham,
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
1st May, 2020 at 06:51:31am
On 30th Apr, 2020 robert said:
don't know if its the same one ,but veronica's tvr s2 is brooklands green graham , very dark . Yes, this looks very dark. I did get a rattle can mixed up for testing before I committed to a 5 litre kit. I’m not sure really this photo is much cop, but it is very dark. Once I get it on the toeboard, so a larger sample, I’ll know for sure.. 
However, it is not a dark blueish “Axis green” like the original GN-29 that I got. The other samples in that photo are Matt black and Satin Black (mixed with rain drops and finger prints apparently) for the roof, wheels and trims. Again, undecided as to which one. And now with the darker paint, I think that’s going to have to wait a little longer to decide. On 30th Apr, 2020 shane said:
Graham, Some good progress there, less the backward step with the paint. Would you mind sharing some more details of the products you are using for the stages on the floor. I'm currently looking for products to coat mine with after I've completed a repair. Shane Not as much progress as I should have made really, regardless of the backward step with the paint. I used: HB Body 989 Expoy primer on the bared metal. Both u-Pol Tiger seal and HB body brush on seam sealer. Then U-pol Gravitex plus HS stone chip protector ( I got grey, but I think there are a few colours available) with a little cellulose thinner ( I think it said on the bottle “up to 10%”) High build primer and top coat are Jawel 2K NON ISO. Although it is 2K, they do say “Non ISO converts the 2K paint system to an air dry system”. So it’s a little slower overall than using 2K ISO paints because you cannot force dry it. Edited by Graham T on 1st May, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
2nd May, 2020 at 05:28:02pm
Brookland Green turned out slightly lighter than I expected…
’77 Clubman build thread
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2619 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
2nd May, 2020 at 09:45:57pm
On 1st May, 2020 Graham T said:
On 30th Apr, 2020 robert said:
don't know if its the same one ,but veronica's tvr s2 is brooklands green graham , very dark . Yes, this looks very dark. I did get a rattle can mixed up for testing before I committed to a 5 litre kit. I’m not sure really this photo is much cop, but it is very dark. Once I get it on the toeboard, so a larger sample, I’ll know for sure..
However, it is not a dark blueish “Axis green” like the original GN-29 that I got. The other samples in that photo are Matt black and Satin Black (mixed with rain drops and finger prints apparently) for the roof, wheels and trims. Again, undecided as to which one. And now with the darker paint, I think that’s going to have to wait a little longer to decide. On 30th Apr, 2020 shane said:
Graham, Some good progress there, less the backward step with the paint. Would you mind sharing some more details of the products you are using for the stages on the floor. I'm currently looking for products to coat mine with after I've completed a repair. Shane Not as much progress as I should have made really, regardless of the backward step with the paint. I used: HB Body 989 Expoy primer on the bared metal. Both u-Pol Tiger seal and HB body brush on seam sealer. Then U-pol Gravitex plus HS stone chip protector ( I got grey, but I think there are a few colours available) with a little cellulose thinner ( I think it said on the bottle “up to 10%”) High build primer and top coat are Jawel 2K NON ISO. Although it is 2K, they do say “Non ISO converts the 2K paint system to an air dry system”. So it’s a little slower overall than using 2K ISO paints because you cannot force dry it. |
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
3rd May, 2020 at 08:25:10am
On 2nd May, 2020 shane said:
Out of curiosity did you experiment any further with the TIG spot weld attachment? I did not do too much more experimentation, but: I found having a reasonable sharp tip point worked better than a “blunt” tip. The sharp tip gives more penetration, but at the same time reduces the diameter of the weld. Distance of the tip from the top sheet being welded is important. I had to keep moving it further into the shroud until I got a good penetration and larger spot. But not too far otherwise the arc began to wander. I think 3mm on a 2.4mm tungsten I found to worked best. As with normal TIG welding (or any other welding I guess), cleanness of work pieces is key. Even the slightest amount of paint anywhere near the weld resulted in what looked like a neat weld from both sides, but invariably although it looked good, there was zero penetration into the bottom panel. I also found that it was more successful on panels welded when horizontal. Rod said about gravity earlier in this thread and he was right. I found that on panels in a vertical position when welded, especially where there was even a trace of any paint, the top sheet just either balled up and ran out or fizzled and disappeared. Lastly, another obvious one, but it is essential that the panels are tight together, any gap between the surfaces and you had a hole with a blob of melted metal. Clamping the work pieces together tight is not always possible, and with a lot of curved area’s to weld, clamping was a problem. Although I did have success, and it does look neat, I also had some massive failures. example: quarter panel to the waist rail (the strengthening panel that runs from B pillar to rear bulkhead and forms part of the lip for the rear side window rubber) - I spot welded the whole thing with the TIG and plenty of clamps. For the most part, it looked OK on both sides, although I had more than a few welds where the top sheet had melted away. But when I let the clamps go, the 2 pieces parted completely. Lack of penetration which I concluded was due to: too low a setting on the welder (in an attempt not to melt out the metal being so close to a corner), there was some residue paint in the weld area all along the waist rail and then there was the fact it was in a vertical position when welded, so a touch of “gravity prevailing”. After the problem with the rear quarter/ waist rail, if I am honest, I lost confidence in the process – or rather my ability to do it properly. I went back through all the other welds I had done with the TIG and checked them to see if I could leaver them apart. Luckily, I only found a couple that had not penetrated. I still do use the TIG for spot welding in areas most on show, or most difficult to clean up after plug welding, but mostly I reverted back to plug welding and refined that process so that I had minimal clean up afterwards. That’s Just my experience though, and I’m sure someone with more patience and diligence than I could make it work to good effect. Edited by Graham T on 3rd May, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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2619 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
6th May, 2020 at 09:20:16pm
Thanks for sharing your findings.
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
11th May, 2020 at 06:03:08pm
Finally, The underside is finished, so the shell has now been turned back upright.
Edited by Graham T on 11th May, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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 (2)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150672766@N03/]Rod Sugden[/url], on Fli) 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
12th May, 2020 at 05:53:16am
On 11th May, 2020 Graham T said:
then hope that I do not screw up the fitting of the door skin, which will be a new task for me! The proper tool - Sealey RE92/33 being the most common one - really is worth the investment. They are not cheap, I got a cheap chinese copy off the internet and even that was so much better than mole grips / pliers / hammers / blocks of wood / all the other bodges I'd used in the past. But your progress is phenomenal... Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
12th May, 2020 at 06:46:15am
On 12th May, 2020 Rod S said:
The proper tool - Sealey RE92/33 being the most common one - really is worth the investment. They are not cheap, I got a cheap chinese copy off the internet and even that was so much better than mole grips / pliers / hammers / blocks of wood / all the other bodges I'd used in the past. But your progress is phenomenal... Thanks Rod, I was going to use one or a combination of all of your quoted "bodge methods", hence my concern. But the door skin folding tool is not too bad in price (£64 with next day delivery), so I have one on order. Yes, it is coming along at a good pace now, I just have to keep up the effort - which is fairly easy at the moment with the lack of distractions... Edited by Graham T on 12th May, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
7th Jun, 2020 at 08:22:11am
I can honestly say that rebuilding these doors has been by far the worst (read most challengingly boring) part of the whole project so far.
’77 Clubman build thread
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2619 Posts Member #: 1246 Post Whore Lowestoft, Suffolk. |
7th Jun, 2020 at 09:08:46am
Some cracking progress Graham.
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6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
8th Jun, 2020 at 07:23:38am
Looking at that side on picture ,my mind went
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
8th Jun, 2020 at 12:38:37pm
On 8th Jun, 2020 robert said:
…immaculate work as usual graham. You will not say that when you see the next part. Just as I thought I had put the last few weeks of door building pain behind me, I spent the whole weekend fighting the wings and frontend, they just would not fit. By the end of day on Saturday, I was convinced that I had completely screwed up the shell, to the extent that is was twisted beyond recovery. After all: the wings are the same length and the subframe appears square so how can this be possible: 
I could force the driver side wing to clamp to the front panel, but all that did was end up changing the fit of the wing against the A-Panel and bowed out the wing and A-panel which just looked plain wrong – plus it was obvious that something was not right. So after a night away from it, on Sunday morning I started measure everything. Starting with measuring as best I could to ensure the subframe was not twisted or just out of shape, then started looking at Subframe to front panel. 
Where I have the tape measure shown, the difference side to side to the mounting bracket was ~6mm, but on the outer end of the front panel (where it joins the wing), difference between sides was ~12mm: driver side being too far back. So a bit more head scratching and measuring and I found one of the problems: Driver side 
Passenger side 
Two things that you cannot see from those photo’s, because my hand is in the way: 1) firstly, I had to pack out the passenger side to space the frontend mounting from the subframe by 5mm in order to get the wing to fit between frontend and A-panel, hence I also packed out the driver side by the same amount. This was odd to start with, but not a problem as it solved how I was going to get a brace bar mounting in place. 2) It was evident when I went to measure the brackets exactly what was wrong. The driver side bracket has been welded in place higher on the front panel, so because it is on a curved surface, that accounts for the difference in distance from the subframe towers. But, it also meant that when mounting the front panel with bolts in the same position either side (ie bottom of subframe hole and top of frontend panel bracket hole, then the front end would not be level. A Massive possible 11mm difference in height at the extremes side to side measure from the subframe. So, with the driver side front panel bracket to subframe packed out an extra 6mm, the driver side wing was within a couple of mm of the front panel, allowing me to get it lined up better with very little bowing of the wing/ a-panel. Getting the heights side to side measure off of the subframe somewhere near even also help, but it was still not perfect. At this point I also noticed that the slam panel was around 4mm away from the driver side wing. To pull the 2 panels together bends the slam panel at the end and inevitably bows the wing again. So after more measuring I then find that the head lamp panels have been welded differently side to side. The driver’s side panel was 4mm lower than the passenger side, hence the slam panel was also lower on the driver’s side by 4mm. By this time I am getting a bit fed up with the whole thing and wished I had either bought a full fibre glass/ CF front end, or even bought all the front panels as separate items and built it up myself. The next drastic and possibly temper fuelled action was to drill out all the spot welds for the headlamp panels and the slam panel centre support to separate the whole thing. I then clamped the whole slam panel “assembly” back onto the lower front panel where I thought it should go, re attached the wings then adjusted slam panel “assembly” to suit the wings. what a mess! 
Not only was the headlamp panel low, but on the driver’s side it was also too far outboard. On the passenger side, it was a good height on the outside corner, but was welded on 3mm lower on the inside, so bending the slam panel down towards the centre of the car. Now the slam panel support is around 4mm short, so I have to check that the slam panel is actually straight. Over all, it now seems to fit much better, but I’ve not measured it all again since butchering it. Originally, I had thought to leave the driver side front panel mounting and just pack it out, but I’ve now decided it would possibly be better to drill out the spot welds (much neater and more carefully that I did with the headlamp panels) and reattach it in the correct place – or at least so that it matches the passenger side. 
But I think a little more measuring before I do commit to doing that. Edited by Graham T on 8th Jun, 2020. ’77 Clubman build thread
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6743 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
8th Jun, 2020 at 01:09:33pm
omg ! Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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967 Posts Member #: 3228 Post Whore North of the Netherlands |
8th Jun, 2020 at 03:01:47pm
Wow, if these would have been 'ordinairy' reproductions one might expect something like this...
Dazed and Confused.... |
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 9311 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
8th Jun, 2020 at 06:35:00pm
Looking good, despite the set backs of the front panel.
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
9th Jun, 2020 at 07:02:41am
On 8th Jun, 2020 robert said:
omg ! My words were a little more “choice” than that - throughout most of Sunday. On 8th Jun, 2020 Yo-Han said:
Wow, if these would have been 'ordinairy' reproductions one might expect something like this... But you have spend extra on Heritage panels and still this?!? I think I would have a not so friendly call with a certain company... I mean it's not out by just a bit... Well done on getting it sorted properly! Yes, Sunday evening I had worked myself up to call them on Monday and explain my disappoint in the quality, but I have since calmed down a little. I have to call them a bit later in the week anyway to find out why the Roof that I ordered in early April is still not here, despite there assurances they were making a batch the following week, so I’ll talk to them about the quality issues then. But based on the way it was put together and the fact that the wings are not the same shape/ size side to side anyway, I’d advise anyone replacing a metal clubman front end not to buy a complete assembly, but buy the individual parts ( which I think works out cheaper). That way you have not got to butcher the panels to make them fit and you can save yourself a lot of work – though that does not help much with the bracket positioning. On 8th Jun, 2020 Nic said:
Looking good, despite the set backs of the front panel. Regarding the brace bars; you have just reminded me that we welded on some plates to the side of the subframe to bolt the brace bar to. (I may be mistaken, these possibly also went to the side of the tie bar mount??) The brace bar then went from this to the damper mount Thanks Nic. Seeing as I appear to have a gap between subframe and frontend bracket on the “better” side, I will probably bolt the brace bars to the front of the subframe to act as a spacer, but your method is always an alternative, depending on the final fit of the front panel. I got my mess of drilled out holes filled with weld and cleaned up last night. The bracket has to be moved on the drivers side. It is definitely ~5mm too “high”. Now that I have the front panel off and can measure and look at it from more than one angle, I can see it better. Because the bracket and front panel are curved, the location of the bracket compared to the opposite side also means that the front panel is mounted at a slightly different angle side to side, which will I think will more impact it’s, and the wings’ fitting. I have now ordered a replacement spot weld drill for the one I could not find on Sunday – hence going mad with a 3/8 twist drill – so that I can try to get the bracket removed cleanly. ’77 Clubman build thread
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967 Posts Member #: 3228 Post Whore North of the Netherlands |
9th Jun, 2020 at 09:07:20am
Again, well done on doing things properly, this far it is really looking great.
Dazed and Confused.... |
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 8215 Posts Member #: 90 Post Whore Somewhere around Swindon |
9th Jun, 2020 at 10:39:36pm
I may be a bit late to this but i am not far from you and have a spot welder if you need to borrow it.
Crystal Sound Audio said:
Why wolfie...you should have your name as Fuckfaceshithead ! "A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."-Douglas Adams |
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604 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
10th Jun, 2020 at 06:27:48am
On 9th Jun, 2020 wolfie said:
I may be a bit late to this but i am not far from you and have a spot welder if you need to borrow it. Thank you very much, that would be most helpful. Once I receive the final panels I will have the roof, rear cantrail and the scuttle panel to get fixed. I did not fancy plug welding and cleaning up the roof. I'll get in touch once I am in a position that I need the spot welder. "Somewhere around Swindon" is a big area. Are you Hungerford side? ’77 Clubman build thread
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