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Home > Introduce Yourself > metro turbo rts clutch

metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

here goes. got a modified metro turbo it had a 20% stronger clutch but it was slipping at about 11 psi. got a rts clutch built and got a verto lightened fly wheel from mini spares. problem is i now cant get a pedal on the clutch at all. tried 2 new cables and still nothing. i just dont get it. any ideas. just got clutch out for 3rd time


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

could it be the fly wheel from mini spares is not right for a metro


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
Post Whore

Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Did you refit the top hat that the release bearing engages on?
The the plunger float easily (cable disconnected) or meet resistance before hitting the throw out stop?
Shane


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

top hats fitted and plunger feels like it should. its as if the cable isnt pushing far enough to disenguage clutch. do rts clutches need more travel than a cable can give.


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Shouldn’t be the case? The throw out stop measurement is the same for minis and Metros Fitted with verto’s if I recall correctly?
Does the stop meet the wok when pedal fully depressed? (just trying to ascertain your achieving normal travel).
What parts were used in the construction of the rts and who built it?
Shane



theoneeyedlizard

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7210 Posts
Member #: 1268
The Boom Boom speaker Police!

Essex

Is there a gap between the fingers of the two springs?

In the 13's at last!.. Just


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

the fingers are together nice. it seems to me like the clutch set up sits forward a bit more than the last causing the arm to move closer to the cable giving me trouble with cable ajustment. going to try old fly wheel this weekend see if that does anything . also just ordered new plunger, and bearing , it all helps i guess


shane

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Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

where the flywheel posts machined at all to get the spring sat flatter?

Shane


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

dont think so. ordered the flywheel from minispares and it was sent straight to vmaxcart where he built up the clutch.


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

dont think so. ordered the flywheel from minispares and it was sent straight to vmaxcart where he built up the clutch.


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Has anything else been disassembled and reassembled during the upgrade?
When I built my first RTS using a turbo and an uprated spring, when the wok was fitted I had no free play on the plunger at all, the top hat was making contact with the release bearing and pre loaded.
I had a fudge round and read some of the threads where the assembly was discussed and there was mention of machining the posts to "flatten" the spring (this also has an effect on the point the clutch bites/clamps/max clamping force).
I ended up machining material off of the flywheel posts, reassembly gave me a the end float required checking it with both a new and a totally worn friction plate installed.
When you say it seems it sits further forward I asume you mean the fingers closer to the release bearing?
The Minispares flywheel shouldn't be your issue as the friction face to the top of the posts should be a common measurement (within a smudge) between all suppliers manufacturers.
If your swapping it out at the weekend with a standard one it might be provident to take measurements from several datums for comparison when the old clutch is back in.
Getting some picture up may help.

Shane

Edited by shane on 10th Jul, 2020.


Rod S

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5975 Posts
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Formally Retired

Rural Suffolk

On 10th Jul, 2020 metro matt said:
..........and it was sent straight to vmaxcart where he built up the clutch.


Not trying to be funny but whoever "vmaxcart" is, shouldn't he/she/whatever be responsible ?

I mean, although it was Robert's original idea, it's not exactly rocket science to do it in practice.

It's just so simple if you know what you are doing, I guess "vmaxcart" (he/she/whatever) doesn't know....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Amp

432 Posts
Member #: 7856
Senior Member

Essex




On 10th Jul, 2020 shane said:

I had a fudge round and read some of the threads where the assembly was discussed and there was mention of machining the posts to "flatten" the spring (this also has an effect on the point the clutch bites/clamps/max clamping force).
I ended up machining material off of the flywheel posts, reassembly gave me a the end float required checking it with both a new and a totally worn friction plate installed


Do you remember how much you had to machine off, or is it a case of 'the necessary amount' to allow for the end float? I was hoping it build up an RTS and have it ready to fit whilst I have access to machining equipment


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

that sounds right shane. looking at the two clutch set ups next to each other the fingers are about a quarter of an inch nearer the bearing forcing the clutch arm tighter to the cable bracket. just a thought if i put spacers between wok bolts pulling it away a bit. would that give the same effect as what your saying.


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

I have it written down in my build notes, I'll dig them out when Im next in the garage. Id say that its not a definitive measurement for all units, I believe the spring position may vary dependant on the springs that you use.
There are guys on here that have built multiple RTS units (more than my two) that may be able to shed more light, Madmk1 Bret sims, obviously their creator/pioneer Robert.

Shane

On 11th Jul, 2020 Amp said:



On 10th Jul, 2020 shane said:

I had a fudge round and read some of the threads where the assembly was discussed and there was mention of machining the posts to "flatten" the spring (this also has an effect on the point the clutch bites/clamps/max clamping force).
I ended up machining material off of the flywheel posts, reassembly gave me a the end float required checking it with both a new and a totally worn friction plate installed


Do you remember how much you had to machine off, or is it a case of 'the necessary amount' to allow for the end float? I was hoping it build up an RTS and have it ready to fit whilst I have access to machining equipment


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Are you suggesting for test purposes or as a fix?

The unknown for me is what's caused your extra 1/4", you clutch is currently unknown in terms of the springs used and the spacers that have been machined to accommodate the second spring.
Unfortunately Rod has a valid point with his comment on VMAX (I didn't realise people were sending units to be made by companies0.
I wouldn't want to say machine your flywheel until we've ascertained its construction.
I spent hours progressively increasing the amount removed and reassembling the clutch to get the geometry similar to a standard unit with repeat testing on the press to prove disengagement with the normal plunger travel.
Shane

On 11th Jul, 2020 metro matt said:
that sounds right shane. looking at the two clutch set ups next to each other the fingers are about a quarter of an inch nearer the bearing forcing the clutch arm tighter to the cable bracket. just a thought if i put spacers between wok bolts pulling it away a bit. would that give the same effect as what your saying.


metro matt

8 Posts
Member #: 12044
Junior Member

the washer idea was as a test. i got a tape measure on the two clutches today and it wasnt 1/4 inch more like 3mm which is i guess the thickness of the extra spring. it did look worse to my wonky eye. do you think that 3mm would stop the clutch cable adjusting properly. if you took the 3mm off the flywheel posts that would pull the fingers lower but wouldnt that effect the clamping pressure


shane

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2501 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

3mm is a massive amount to remove, looking at my notes I didn't log the actual amount removed only the final friction face to post top measurement which was 23.7 mm.
What is actually going on with your clutch in terms of operation? you've only stated " i now cant get a pedal on the clutch at all " Are you achieving full travel of the plunger?
Is the throw out stop set correctly?
Need to ascertain that first before going forward.
Shane

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