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Home > Technical Chat > A few more horses... maybe...

evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
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Stansted, Essex

Hey guys...

Iím currently doing a bit of an overhaul on the mini after doing approx 1000 miles since itís been set up and just wondering if thereís any tips or tricks to push a few more horses out?

Iím changing the worm and spindle for the speedo as itís been under reading since itís been up and running.. everything has been disconnected and the engine is ready to be lifted out tomorrow. Whilst itís out Iíll check over all nuts and bolts on the body.

Whatís your thoughts on changing the intercooler? Iím thinking of doubling it in size but not sure if Iíll see a huge gain... donít want to spend a few hundred for no noticeable gain.

Also thinking about wrapping the exhaust manifold and maybe putting a blanket on the turbo.. any thoughts on this?

Anything really?


madmk1

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5383 Posts
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Double hard bastard

brookwood woking

Hi mate,

Sorting the speedo will give you more mph lol 😂

Changing the ic is hard without seeing what you have in there tbh mate.

Wrapping the manifold never ends well, as leads to cracking over time.

Never been a fan of the turbo blanket, my train of thought was you need it to cool not cook itís self. I know some people use them who knows.

Simon

I have started posting on Instagram also my name on there is turbomk1mini

Nothing is impossible it just costs more and takes longer.

On 1st Nov, 2007 Ben H said:
There is no such thing as 'insignificant weight saving', it all adds up.


Turbo Phil

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4502 Posts
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My sister is so fit I won't show anyone her picture

Lake District

Without knowing how effective your current intercooler is its impossible to know if changing it will have any benefit.
What kind of charge temps are you seeing ?

Phil.

WWW.TURBO-MINI.COM


Tom Fenton
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15280 Posts
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Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

&

TM legend.

Rotherham South Yorkshire

More boost is the only easy way to more grunt buddy.


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

Yes changing the speedo drive will certainly help me see higher speeds! 😂

The intercooler is from an escort, core size approx 300 x 120 x 90mm with 2Ē inlet and outlet... so itís not that big really....

Actually I donít have a gauge for measuring charge temps...

Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


theoneeyedlizard

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7188 Posts
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The Boom Boom speaker Police!

Essex

Has it been on the rollers Dave? How much boost are you using?

If not, that will gain you some power in the same boost and make it safe.

Ultimately, More boost is the answer.

In the 13's at last!.. Just


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
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Stansted, Essex

Hi Gary... yeah I took it to Slarks a couple of years ago.. its running 9psi of boost. I think he had 132 horses out of it on the day.


shane

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2276 Posts
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

I used to use the same intercooler, I had two K type thermocouples on the inlet and outlet to monitor charge temps and was surprised how efficient it actually was.

Shane


On 24th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:
Yes changing the speedo drive will certainly help me see higher speeds! 😂

The intercooler is from an escort, core size approx 300 x 120 x 90mm with 2Ē inlet and outlet... so itís not that big really....

Actually I donít have a gauge for measuring charge temps...

Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


Tom Fenton
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15280 Posts
Member #: 337
Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

&

TM legend.

Rotherham South Yorkshire




On 24th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:


Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


Do you have a wideband lambda fitted? Perhaps useful to see what it is doing fuelling wise when it does as you explain.


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex


Thatís interesting Shane... how did you connect them to the inlet & outlet? Is it a probe that sits in the airflow or is it possible to get a clamp type? Surely a probe would mean drilling and then making air tight somehow...

On 25th Jul, 2020 shane said:
I used to use the same intercooler, I had two K type thermocouples on the inlet and outlet to monitor charge temps and was surprised how efficient it actually was.

Shane


On 24th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:
Yes changing the speedo drive will certainly help me see higher speeds! 😂

The intercooler is from an escort, core size approx 300 x 120 x 90mm with 2Ē inlet and outlet... so itís not that big really....

Actually I donít have a gauge for measuring charge temps...

Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

I do Tom, but the couple of occasions it happened I had the dash partially installed and as a result couldnít see the reading as it wasnít connected properly. Typical...




On 25th Jul, 2020 Tom Fenton said:



On 24th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:


Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


Do you have a wideband lambda fitted? Perhaps useful to see what it is doing fuelling wise when it does as you explain.


shane

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2276 Posts
Member #: 1246
Post Whore

Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Really is a piece of pi@@

Thermocoples; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1M-K-Type-Multim...3IAAOSwJppdFfL9

Thermometer; https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dual-Channel-K-T...fYAAOSws~Bd-D7v

The thermocouples are small enough to slide under the hose joiners on the inlet/outlets.
Most of the K type thermometers have min/max and Delta T functions, cheap but informative. Also good to use to establish a datum before you make any changes then ascertain the gains made.

Also a smaller intercooler installed with good air flow and a path for the heat to be rejected is potentially better than a massive one installed poorly/no air flow.

Shane


On 25th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:

Thatís interesting Shane... how did you connect them to the inlet & outlet? Is it a probe that sits in the airflow or is it possible to get a clamp type? Surely a probe would mean drilling and then making air tight somehow...

On 25th Jul, 2020 shane said:
I used to use the same intercooler, I had two K type thermocouples on the inlet and outlet to monitor charge temps and was surprised how efficient it actually was.

Shane


On 24th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:
Yes changing the speedo drive will certainly help me see higher speeds! 😂

The intercooler is from an escort, core size approx 300 x 120 x 90mm with 2Ē inlet and outlet... so itís not that big really....

Actually I donít have a gauge for measuring charge temps...

Sometimes when driving I have noticed a loss of power when up around 50-60mph.. if I back off the accelerator it seems to clear and then maybe it happens again, or doesnít... itís hard to explain really....


Attachments:

Edited by shane on 26th Jul, 2020.


monsterob

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Crewe

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/174319592179 saw these if your just testing ?

Outside the box


theoneeyedlizard

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7188 Posts
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The Boom Boom speaker Police!

Essex

Sounds like you need another session and go for a bit more boost.

You could possibly get away with adding a bit yourself, but youíd need to know what the ignition timing is like and keep a good eye on the wideband. Obviously more risk involved like this.

On 25th Jul, 2020 evad1980 said:
Hi Gary... yeah I took it to Slarks a couple of years ago.. its running 9psi of boost. I think he had 132 horses out of it on the day.

In the 13's at last!.. Just


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

Thanks chaps.... good info as usual..

Iíll try the thermocouples as it seems a fairly inexpensive way to see how effective the intercooler is.

I think your right Gary about another session... I wonít mess with the timing as thatís beyond me. Iíll leave that to the professionals...


shane

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2276 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

How have you got your cooler mounted?
Shane


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

like this...


Attachments:

Edited by evad1980 on 27th Jul, 2020.


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

But I need to bring it forward a bit as one of the pipes to the oil cooler is doing this to the back of the intercooler....


Attachments:


stevieturbo

3408 Posts
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Post Whore

Northern Ireland

pressure drop across the core is as important as cooling ability.

Doesnt matter if it cools superbly..if it cannot flow any air.

Although there is a simple rule....fit the biggest and best core you can. Because in most cars, the car is the limiting factor on size anyway. And Garrett make the best cores by far.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will


shane

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2276 Posts
Member #: 1246
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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Have you thought about adding some cowling around it to channel the air through?
Shane


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

Yeah Iíve been looking at various ones on eBay.. but then you canít guarantee quality.. Garrett ones can be expensive too.

Iíve actually not thought about channelling air via some cowling, an interesting idea. What about in intercooler that was as close to the size of the whole front grille... that would kind of make up for some cowling I guess as the air would have nowhere else to go...

Like this for instance...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/302629824960

Edited by evad1980 on 28th Jul, 2020.


shane

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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

The more air you can get across / through the more heat exchange can be achieved, by adding a cowl or ducting you don't allow the air to "bypass" the core, remember the air flow will take the easiest path.
As for Ebay intercoolers, as Stevie mentioned "fit the biggest and best core you can" I fear you'd be only ticking one of those boxes.
Someone like Concept racing could supply you a decent quality core to your requirements then you fabricate your own end tanks (which appears to have been done on your current unit), alternately they could manufacture the whole thing. I appreciate were getting into the territory of spending vast sums of money here.
Which ever route you go, measuring the inlet/outlets of your current set up will serve as a good datum for any future changes you make.
Shane


evad1980

1140 Posts
Member #: 10165
Post Whore

Stansted, Essex

Ok... thatís what Iíll do... Iíll start by repositioning what I have. By moving it closer and squarer to the front grille and Iíll look at creating a cowling to channel the airflow too. It does make sense to figure out how effective my current unit is before spending cash on another one.


Maybe a silly or obvious question... but.... going back to your thermocouples.. as long as you take a measurement of the heat either side of the core (like in the pic below) that should be fine? I only ask as I notice one of your sensors close to the plenum. Just checking!


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Edited by evad1980 on 28th Jul, 2020.


shane

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Lowestoft, Suffolk.

Yes your correct, mine were positioned on the inlet to the plenum and the outlet of the compressor housing (can't be seen in the image I posted) only so I could remove the intercooler complete with the boost hoses.
The cooler was installed over the clutch housing.
The other thing to bear in mind is your turbo selection if your thinking of turning the boost up.

Shane


evad1980

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Member #: 10165
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Stansted, Essex

Yeah thought as much but thought Iíd ask.. *Nerd*

I want to keep the same turbo and wind up the boost if I can...I remember Neil telling me there was room for some more when I was there, how much though Iím not sure. CR is 8.4:1 and Iím running 9psi of boost atm.

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