Water-Methanol Injection
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi all,

I'm an aviation fan, and I'm currently reading a book on WWII aero engines - and there's a wealth of information on how to get power from piston engines... so based on German engine technology, I got this idea for my turbo Mini...

injecting a mixture of 75% water - 25% methanol into the intercooler above certain revs...

In theory, the water should cool the air, and methanol's incredible cooling capacity should cool it further.... then once it's inside the combustion chamber.... ethanol is a very powerful fuel, and should add to the combustion process further.

This would give power in two aspects - extra density of the fuel/air charge + an even more explosive fuel...

Maybe this could be an alternative to Nitrous Oxide...

I believe a fully-autmated ignition system would be a must in such a scenario...

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

Hey i have also thought about this before and mentioned it on the website but was told its a cheats way out of solving the dreaded problem of pinking and you should address the problem the propper way.

Like you i think it is a great idea but i have read more along the lines of using a 1:1 ratio of methanol and water as alcohol absorbs heat better that water and will also boost power more, and also has the advantege of turning up the boost more on a turbo car or advancing the timing and compression ratio on a N/A car.

Never heard about injecting it in the intercooler before i would like some more information if u have any if you could email it me, c_barkas@hotmail.com it would be a great help as i am about to build an all out mota for my marcos.


I have looked at kits before and rearly liked the idea as it has the advantages of increased power, better fuel consumption, better emmisions, cleaner combustion chambers and the only down side is by injecting water power is lost slightly but shurly this is made up by the methanol and increased boost. wizards of nos do a nice kit, quality looks second to nene.

Keep up the good work, Barkiboi!
a.k.a chris Barkas.

I'll look up my aero engines book again, and check the water/methanol ratio.

Methanol is a VERY powerful fuel, and I believe the 75% is necessary to keep things reliable. I've seen methanol-fuelled Minis in old Minimags, but these had totally different timing, obviously...

The idea of throwing it in at the intercooler is to help keep the intercooler cooler... and thus make its job easier..

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

well as one top turbo guru stated once!

water suppresion is a band aid to not sorting the problem at source in the firstplace

i suspect that you will run into all kinds of problems with the humble A series engine

i dont want to rain on your parade but..... unless you have a bank full of money & a wealth of knowlage & facilities etc....

it will go pear shaped.

water injection is one thing - water/methanol is another. Methanol is a fuel used in top-notch dragsters, and NASCAR IIRC. However, a fast-raod Mini cannot realistically be run only on methanol, but if it had to, there would be an incredible power hike to be enjoyed.

The water is there to keep things under check and basically to reduce the flamability of it - remember that methanol is particularly dangerous because it burns with an invisible flame.... In fact, I would go as far as install an underbonnet temperature sensor, just to make sure...

I donated, but somehow didn't get the label! :(

Methanol is a strange fuel. It is not as powerful as petrol, but it has the advantage of not detonating. To get the same power from an engine using methanol however, you have increase the compression ratio. So using methonal as a fuel on a forced induction motor you can run silly compression ratios (16:1 and above I think) with high boost and non of the detonation problems. I think this is why topfuel cars use it, I could be wrong.

Squirting watered down methanol into a petrol engine could work in theory, but to get it right could be difficult. I guess getting a water injection system working first and slowly increasing the methanol content to see what happens could be interesting though.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

your probly correct with the ratio, i read it in david vizards tuning the ford S.O.H.C book and i think its aimed for use on the track so the 75% water is going to be less harsh for road use. When building a engine to run on pure alcohol the fuel delivery system needs to be able to deliver 2.5 to 3 times as much fuel as the same engine designed to run on petrol, so dent expect very good mpg on a alcohol fueld car, lol, maybe a project for the future now that would be intresting. Another simpler idea is to add the alcohol to the base fuel as a octane booster, this will also help a engine run slightly cooler, generaly add 10% to your base fuel.

Barkiboi.

You did that in 10 minutes???

What a fantastic post. I've never spent much time looking into methanol before - but knew about the low calarofic value - hence a specialised engine to make use of it.

Keep the discussion coming - you guys are great!

i'll say it again where do you keep all that info in your head pete! bloody good info though cant wait to see your car, glad to see your still alive

if you want bhp then just squirt lox in (thats liquid oxygen) no need for spark plugs then spend the next week looking for all you engine bits lol.

but thats a great post mate i used to use methanol with castor oil and a dash of nitro methane for my racing model boats what a great smell beats castrol R any day but tastes shit if you swallow it.

but seriously i recon injecting small quantiys of avgas would be a better and simpler prospect when under boost.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas

I just remeber someone said that they ran a Mini engine on Methanol with a 2" SU, and needed floats on boths sides of the carb :)

Fuels..... confusing ay smelly clear liquids distilled from black sludge of dead animals trapped below the ground for millions of years. Unleaded comes in two main octane ratings in england 95 RON and 98 RON, correct???

Higher octane fuels supress detonation, right??? Therefore by using higher octane fuels is it possible to gain increased power levels by turning up boost??

I know the maximum octane you can buy form the pump is around 98/99 RON and dont know what benefits you could expect form this when running a turbo A series, i tried it in my sisters Ford Ka once and it made the engine more drivable/ smooth and responsive and would even go as far as saying it increased the fuel ecconomy.

Dont worry this is leading somewhere.... there is a product out there which claims to be able to produce 108 RON leaded fuel, so surely this would be great to suppress pinking, and making higher BHP figeres, does any body know of a law which says the octane level of petrol cannot raise above a certain point e.g to the extent of 108 RON octane.

I found a link on turbo minis with this product and think it looks great gonna put in a order and give it a try, will keep you posted, take a look for your self www.tetraboost.com it may be usefull for on the dragstrip.

If some one could clear up the relevane of fuel octane ratings and the possibility of increasing power and how to go about it, it would be gratefull.


Barkiboi. 8-) 8-)