Dogboxes
Turbo Mini Forums

Has anyone driven or have a dogbox on the road?
What do you think of it?

I seriously doubt it!

My only question would be why would you want one for road use? I have driven cars with dog boxes in, they are great on a gravel rally stage, but I can't see why you would want one for road use.

ear splitting !

I have one ib my possesion, i aquired it from a chap named dave webster, he has a big power 16v KAD mini , he tried the dog box on the road for ,he circa 600 mls and give it up as a pain in the arse ,i casn only imagine its the 1st gear selection from a stop thats the real pain as its effe3ctively a crash in to 1st, when you, use one theres a feeling of slamming the cogs in place, this is fine under race conditions but would be a bit alarming everytime you swapped cogs at any revs.they are good though ,don't take much getting to know .
about the time he'd had enough of it he spotted a wanted ad of mine for a SC box so called me up and did a deal on some more TI parts he wanted, bingo ,winners all round.its sat in my garage now waiting for me to get the 16 v head done . blaa blaa blaa. you know how it is,
so apart from the extra long 1st what gains do you think it will give you Paul.

carl


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Its not that I particularly want one for the road, but my car is used on the road. Swiftune reckon it will improve quarter mile times so I am considering it as that is most important to me.
The thing is, everybody said "No dont fit a 310 cam, Itll be undriveable. They also said "Dont fit a Salisbury LSD, itll be undriveable." I have fitted a 310 and think its a pussycat (I could do with more) and I have fitted a Salisbury and get on great with it.
I wonder if its the same case with a dogbox.I dont care if its a pain in the arris to drive as long as its fast. I just wondered how other people have got on with them.
Also I do flat gearshifts and a dogbox might put up with it better
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

Well - so long as you don't mind waiting a few seconds after pressing the clutch before engaging gear, it'll probably be ok.

Dan webster hangs out on www.minifinity.com - why not ask him directly?

Edited by turbodave16v on 2nd Jan, 2006.

OK Carl says Dave Webster, Dave says Dan! Which one?
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

yes i have, not sure i liked it, as how ever hard you tryed not to crunch the gears you couldn't unless you smash it in to gear every time, not what i want really.

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

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Me got 6 speed dog

Bloody exelent! Going up the box is easy, just slightly lift off and bang it in, no clutch 1-2 is a little tricky clutchless, but it gets easyer as you go up.

Going back down again is a bit more tricky. Im not sure how you're suposed to do it but heal/toe seams to work for me.

Its a bit of a pain on the road, but I recon it'll make for a better 1/4 mile because of the instant gear change.

I'd say get one.

Its only a bit of metal. If it blows it blows!

http://www.putfile.com/mini300bhp

i'm sure that Dan Webster's brother is running a KAD 16 valver aswell (maybe called dave?)

Cheers Mini300bhp, What make do you have?
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

JKD. If you want you can come round have a go see what you think.

Its only a bit of metal. If it blows it blows!

http://www.putfile.com/mini300bhp

That would be very much appreciated. Nice one. Ill PM you to arrange it, poss next weekend?
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

That might be abit soon because my engine is in bits at the mo...Waiting for minispeed to pull their fingers out! I'll let you know when its done mate.

Its only a bit of metal. If it blows it blows!

http://www.putfile.com/mini300bhp

OK mate thanks
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

Paul, although quicker gearchanges may help you shave a few hundredths of your 1/4 ets . what you need to really chop into them is less gearchanges.especially your first to second .

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Thats right Carl, but ive tried 2nd gear starts and NA just doesnt have the torque, it bogs down. I run a 4.1 diff perhaps a higher one would pull it but then id run out of revs.
Any ideas?
I know gas would do it but I want to push road beyond the limits first.
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

On 02/01/2006 20:53:13 mini300bhp said:

Me got 6 speed dog

Bloody exelent! Going up the box is easy, just slightly lift off and bang it in, no clutch 1-2 is a little tricky clutchless, but it gets easyer as you go up.

Going back down again is a bit more tricky. Im not sure how you're suposed to do it but heal/toe seams to work for me.

Its a bit of a pain on the road, but I recon it'll make for a better 1/4 mile because of the instant gear change.

I'd say get one.

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[/quote]
Double de clutch mate i never had issues going down the box, however going from 2nd to third over bumpy ground was a pig, but me box had seen a decade of use lol... i would say personally not the best idea for road use... as per Tom
[/quote]

But are you using it on the road?
I dont really want to make compromises for road use but I do need to take it into account
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

.. i used mine 4 rally x it will be ear peircing. also bearing in mind for 1/4 mile your gear changes up the box will need to be swift and smooth, i would recomend having a go in someones who has a dog box, before spending and finding you dont like them... just what i would do Paul, doesnt make it right tho

Edited by Richie on 2nd Jan, 2006.

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MikeRace, Mini13

My experience of dog engagement boxes was in gravel stage rallying. The dog box we found to be worth approx 2 secs per mile in testing with different drivers in two identical cars (apart from gearboxes) at Sweet Lamb rally stage in Wales.

The cars were perfectly driveable on the road, you just had to turn off any idea of mechanical sympathy and rag the lever into the next gear. All well and good on a rally car that saw a full gearbox rebuild every three to four events, including all the selector mechanisms. This was also based on modern gearbox technology, I dread to think what prolonged use would do to our antiquated mini gearbox selector forks and mechanisms.

So in summary? Yes go for it, but be prepared for frequent gearbox rebuilds.

As an aside, the other reason I would not use a dog box on a mini unless STRICTLY neccessary is due to the amount of metal particles such a gearbox creates due to the crash action of the gears. This is asking for oil pump trouble, that is unless you modified the block to include an external oil pump suction leg pre-filter.

I appreciate all your replies for and against and will take them under advisement
Paul

I seriously doubt it!

I agree with tom on the dogs in the box. I don't know specifically about the a series dog boxes but we always replace the dogs in the f1 cars i help look after, after every meeting! But then surely these things were taken into account during design?

i forgot about that ! deffo good point, i used to rebuild engine after every season, and would change the oil and filters after every event and the amount of metal stuck on the magnet was frightening ! used to flush the engine right out luckily i never had oil pump issues, but i stress on the luckiloy part

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MikeRace, Mini13

Well paul your stuck between a rock and a hard place, a dog box will not make up the 1/3 sec you want . no matter what anyont tells you.
the way to reduce you ets with X amount you have is by weight reduction .
you need torque to accelerate ang Hp for the top end, if youre engine is making max of both your stuck there also.
making gaing in the last1/8 is the hardest as drag comes into mplay, so you need to find ways to cover the first 1/8th quicker ,
cutting oput the first gearchange will save you m ore time if you can make it work ,than using a non syncro box without a doubt.

heres a quick comparison whilst i'm at it ,
me and ian built our twinnie cars at the same time , mine was always lighter by say 100kgs at a guess.
i used 3.9 fds he used 3.4 fds, i ,from the word go used 2nd for launching and straight into 4th.
not ideal going straight into top but selection niggles dictatesd,
Ian insisted his car would not launch in 2nd as it was too heavy and too tall geared, for 20 months he complained he could not get good launches [too much wheel spin ] and over 2 secs for 60ft, but was afraid to try 2nd for fear of breakage,
now his engines were making more power than mine when he used gas also ,this we know with that 130mph terminal.
eventually at one meeting i convinced him to try a 2nd gear launch,
he did , he pulled a 1.7 something 60ft and run a 11.16 @ about 125mph.
this was with the rear engine launching in top due to selector rod desyncrnisation[big word].
so he actually launched in 2nd on the front and top in the rear but was making enough torque to pull it off ,
basically you need to loose a lot of weight or make a lot more torque, either should allow you a 2nd gear launch,.

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE