Phase 3 Dyno Results compared to RE13T cam
Turbo Mini Forums

Hello All,

as you may remember i ordered a new ph 3 cam and have just comleted a full rebuild with omega +20, 7.6: comp ph 3 cam big head 31 and 36mm valves and big ports etc etc.

a chap here is Aus being the mini guru has a engien dyno so i decided to get it tuned on that and set up before the install, so two weeks ago we did it and the results were mixed.

it ran real rich most of the day according to the exhaust sniffer but looking at the plugs she was runnign great.

the hp at 10psi was 160 at 7k and 125 torque at 5k and held 120 till 6.5k. i thought it was ok but a little disapointed we did not run much more that that on the dyn cause no intercooler was fitted.

so its taken me will last night to fit the motor and drive it and what a dissapointment i must say, i believe the old motor went much harder with the kent cam in it, the ph 3 just has fkn nothing below 3 at all and i mean nothing and even on 14psi between 3 to 7500 it goes ok but nothing like i thought it would at all its just honestly dead

so i have spoken to the guru again and he is designs his own cams and he is going to make me a cam to try out and go from there.

so i can honestly say the ph 3 is just too big for a turbo motor with 7.6:1 unless you want to keep it at 5 to 7k all day, its that bad it even struggles to get off the line unless you slip it to 3k and then it just wheel spins to its no good.

Edited by RED850 on 9th May, 2006.

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

Sorry to hear about that, but I guess that's how we find out this stuff, by actually DOING it, so good for you for trying :)

It's not my engine, but I would have gone more like 8.5 for that cam, they bleed off a LOT of cylinder pressure at low RPM, maybe try another stock head with more CR before you chuck the cam, easier than taking everything out again. Just a thought.

Less is often more with the A series as I have found out over the years. Good to have this info though so thanks for sharing.

Peter

Peter

Editor

MAGA7INE
Seven Magazine
The brand new quality Classic Mini Tech and Journal
Issue 1 out late 2027.

hey thats not a bad idea there, i do have another head i will have to cc it but its worth a shot hey

yeah its all about giving it a go, and then sharing the info

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

You may even get away with more CR than that if you stick to say 10psi with the intercooler and use a pretty much stock head. So if the head CC's in the range of 9:1 as it is may save you spending more money getting to exactly 8.5, which is a fairly random figure TBH. The metty after all had 9.4 nominal and 10 psi intercooled is possible with that and the phase 3 will have a lot less cyl pressure than the metty cam.

At lease you will know if it's worth trying then without paying for anything other than a gasket set and maybe some octane booster just to be safe :)

Peter

Editor

Seven Magazine.

(Will also be availble in Australia :)

Peter

Editor

MAGA7INE
Seven Magazine
The brand new quality Classic Mini Tech and Journal
Issue 1 out late 2027.

I'd agree with Peter - Definately whack up the CR. Also- what turbine ae you using?

ok, i get on reall well with this guy his name is Graham Russel and Calver has even come out here to see him and he now braggs about Graham back in your land, but anyway Graham has told me that for no charge he will put my motor on his dyno and play with cam grinds and find the best one for me over a few days weeks and that way we will find one that really works

but yes i might be worth trying a head first

dave i am using a T25 of a nissan CA18T motor

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

Why do you Ausies stay up all night?

http://www.rabdunn.co.uk/

That's excellent. Have you got a Ph2 to compare with? If not, someone send him one immediately!!! :)

That sounds a very similar result to JFs experiment with a PH3.

Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph

Yes, did that 2 years ago.....

Same results!

However i will not part with my PH3 as i will use it again.

Hmm....Yeh I think your comp ratio is to low to get the most out of the cam. The Phase 3 is what it is...A 'race' turbo cam. It's designed to be kept above 3. Give the phase 2 a go. Are you using programmable ignition? If your not, it might be worth a go.


p.s 160 bananas on 10psi aint bad going.

http://www.avonbar.com

Programmable ign sould make a big imporvement to your setup!

Alex

AlexF

yeah i have mixed feelings, i would love to try a ph 2 but cant afford one at the moment, i will try a different head and bring the cr up to around 8 to 8.5 and then go from there.

i am happy with 160 monkey munchie's on 10 i think the cam really needs 15 to 20 psi as it blows so much out the exhaust you really need to fill it more to get it to be effective.
and yes it must be above 3 k all the time i will drive it for a few days and get more of an idea of what it needs and has etc etc

any one got a ph 2 i can borrow and then send it back????????

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

how soon do you need one red? I may be able to help

Team Racing

my oppinion red is.... go out of your way to get hold of a phase 2 cam, fit that and time it in at 108deg

leave the head as for now as you can change this in situe! at a later date, (but a doubt you will. if you read below!)

place this on the rollers & you will be pleasently suprised.

the C/R is only 0.9 away from what most peeps on hear use,

i suspect that those overly large intake ports are reducing port velocity! "especially with the low boost your running".

of course C/R is everthing! but in reds case i doubt it

while you are waiting for your cam to arrive, make it happen with the intercooler

as its a combination of the cam you have fitted and the low boost you were runing.

the phase 2 cam is fairly forgiving with diffrent engine configs.

jimster: i doubt you will see your cam again

may be the money but not your cam

what i have learned is quoting the phase 3 cam whilst in the boozer is ok,
but in the real world they ore OTT for a turbo motor.

Edited by BENROSS on 19th Jan, 2006.

Is this the enigne your planning to run EFi on?

Alex

AlexF

i lost 30 bhp that cam, so not very race is it

Best 1/4 mile 13.2 seconds @116 mph
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on a carb?
First 5 port miniturbo to make over 200 bhp on Injection?

http://www.mattwoodsphotography.com

what exhaust outlet is that?

Jim i may take you up on it, but we will talk more about it soon, i do not need it for at least one to two weeks or so.

Benross your right he may not see it again cause i will fingers xed love it he he but i have built the motor to run at minimum 15 pounds and maybe up to 18 that is why i have such a low CR i just have not cracked it up that high yet but i will over the weekend cause i want to see how it goes.

Benross your right figures show well on the dyno but it dont drive real well, it just blows way too much out the zorst, i think you need 20psi to make it work

will report back soon


looking at the ph 2 spec its not heaps bigger than the kent 500 i took out which was very tame but drove real well has any one compared the 500 to the ph 2 ??

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

drop me an email if you want to borrow it mate

Team Racing

what`s with the ball valve on the boost pipe ?

1293 Turbo mini

Peter

Editor

MAGA7INE
Seven Magazine
The brand new quality Classic Mini Tech and Journal
Issue 1 out late 2027.

jimmy, the ball valve is for adjusting the bracket where the needle valve will adjust in. i.e. set the ball valve so i can then adjust the needle vlave to bleed boost from 10 to 15 pound or set the ball valve so i can adjust the needle valve to bleed between 8 to 12 pound etc

Jimster check your PM's

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph

ok,well finally i was able to change my cam from the Ph 3 to an OZ design turbo cam, not sure if many of you guys have read the name Graham Russel in mini magaze at all but he is the mini guru down here in OZ and he wanted to help me out with a new cam after the dissapointing results i got with the Ph3, n e way he designed me a new cam with 112 LCA and 290 lift and around 265 duration, i also fitted my 1.5 solid minisport rockers too and put it back on the dyno and we got some great figures.

as you know the last cam had nothing below 3500rpm and still just did not go as well as i thought it would have.

so now on 13psi i got 175hp at the crank @ 7000rpm and it was still climbing, we did not want to rev it too much harder as its sill freshish but not super fresh and we thought we might spin it up harder once run in more and then on a chassis dyno.
the engine made over 110nm of torque at 3,000 rpm and then just climbed up and up.

so i should try and get the engine in this weekend and let you all know how it goes.

Grant

179hp on 12psi 1293cc of pure A series
14.0et @101 mph