For those thinking of / doing the K1100 head...
Turbo Mini Forums

So, what are you thinking of for fastening the head to the block?
The 8V head could easilly take studs and nuts I believe - but the 16 is something else altogether...

I can only really see bolts working - and the original ones cut down is probably the easiest option. I also like the idea of being able to take the head off with the cams still in place - not ideal i know - but if you need to change a HG quickly before a race, last thing you want is to be fannying about with the cams...

Anyways - My concern is with the front* middle three studs/bolts/fasteners... These are M10xsomething, which means the front three stud holes can't reliably be filled with 3/8UNC threaded bar, then drilled and tapped IMO.

Maybe another option is to 'try' and get some 3/8UNC cap-heads of a suitable length and use these? The head would have to be turned down however to clear the cams and/or the spotface under the current bolt-head lowered by a couple of mm and/or the cams relieved in the appropriate areas (don't think i like that option - especially for the two near the cam wheels)...

Any other ideas??? I've shared mine - (which probably means they'll be plagiarised for profit somewhere - LOL) but I'm just wondering what anyone else is thinking?


oh - I'm not doing the 16v head - I'm helping Jimster with his, so I'm just thinking ahead to an area that needs thinking about!











*No arsey comments about how the front of the Engine is the waterpump end please. We all know you know, so it doesn't need anything more to be added....

Edited by turbodave16v on 6th Apr, 2006.

I don't know a fat lot about this conversion, but just thinking laterally Dave, you mention getting some 3/8UNC caps to use in three positions, I personally wouldn't like to have to torque a head down using a thread this coarse into cast iron, could a stud not be made to allow the use of a nut at the top, I know you mention that room is tight, but how about a k-nut? Obviously you'd need to do some investigation into the torque they will withstand, just an idea.

The other option I have thought of, how close are the centres of the original A series holes to the BMW holes centres on these three you mention?
If they are more or less bang on, could you not investigate if there is enough material left to allow you to drill the 3/8UNC out and then helicoil the hole M10? M10x1.5 would be good as it gives more scope for drilling a bigger hole, although M10x1 would be preferable in terms of torquing down.

I have successfully helicolied head studs on an Alloy blocked engine before now, they were M11x1. (Which may be worth considering if you get stuck, take a small cut out of the head bolt bore and go up to M11, commonly used on some modern cars I can tell you which.)
I didn't think it would work, but it works a treat, even torquing down with modern stretch bolts, something like 40Nm + 300deg.

I belive others which done this in the past use the long ARP head studs and cut them down a few mm.

I'm at the stage now of plugging my block, so this will be a problem I will be hitting very soon.

Team Racing

So how many others are doing this conversion. Myself
1071s
antman
minisprocket

Team Racing

Simon at more speed offers them as a complete engine and has one running in his demo car as far as I know.

http://www.twin-turbo.co.uk
http://www.hillclimbandsprint.co.uk/default.asp

A man without a project is like a like a woman without a shopping list.

I was down there getting in his way on monday, this was lurking in the corner of the workshop.

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Think he said his demo car will be up ready for the rolling road shootout on the 22nd (or 23rd? ) of this month.

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

"did you know you can toast potato waffles?"

I'm REALLY liking the helicoil suggestion tom...

Other one I;ve just thought of is to drill the 'problem three' in the block M14 or something similar - and make an insert that is M14 on the OD, and M10xwhatever on the ID... Basically a thick helicoil....


I'm not interested in what Morspeed is doing TBH, This isn't minifinity afterall. Besides - whatever he's decided on 'might' not be the most suitable for the est of us...

Dave, I found some info on some propietory available thread inserts something like what you describe, I am fairly sure I saw them in the Demon Tweeks motorsport catalogue, they were called e-z-locks or something like that?

I have not, as of yet, found any problem using the A series long studs and nuts with the original BMW washer under neath the nut, though im at the same point as Jimster needing the block skimming and the deck re drilling to suit. The cams turn freely without any signs of binding. If need be the studs can be shortened and the washer ommitted giving plenty of clearance. I'll see if i can find a pic i took last year when researching the project.

MS

On 06/04/2006 11:59:23 joeybaby83 said:

I was down there getting in his way on monday, this was lurking in the corner of the workshop.

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Think he said his demo car will be up ready for the rolling road shootout on the 22nd (or 23rd? ) of this month.

Edited by Sprocket on 6th Apr, 2006.

Edited by Sprocket on 6th Apr, 2006.

Scratch that.

That was just plain silly

Edited by Sprocket on 6th Apr, 2006.

Hmmmm - I was just looking for a solution that allowed the cams, can wheels, front plate, everything to remain in situ when you want to lift the head...

I do prefer to use studs rather than bolts though...

I guess that if i made the 'adaptor' that fits between the camshaft and vernier pulley in one part, and used a longer bolt that allowed each whole pulley/adaptor/oil seal surface to be removed in one hit after de-tensioning the belt, then the cams could still be removed with the front head plate in situ...

For the amount of times that you'd need to change the head - combined with the reliability of running studs rather than bolts, this has to be a better option I guess....

You mean similar to this??

This is not the BMW cam adapter but the A series cam adapter but works exactly the same. As you know the BMW cam has a locating pin and a keyed cam sprocket would allow what you want.

Also this is how Im getting round the A series cam sprocket attachment. Note that all four seals on the engine will be of the same size.

Edited by Sprocket on 6th Apr, 2006.

aye - that kinda thing...

Jim will be using Verniers on his - I suspect the vernier 'centre' will be machined from steel, and also act as the camshaft drive adaptor...

ooh i see, doh.

MMMM very nice indeed, but alas a little more expensive tha im willing to spend at the minute.

If its cheep, i'll have it

Bring on steptoe and son

Well I'm not going to do the math - but I'd have thought that you could make your cam pulleys into verniers by boring say a 3" diameter through the middle (concentric of course) and mounting this on a 'lip' on the (new) vernier centre. You could then have a series of holes drilled around the plate that allowed you to (after removing the belt) to swing between say 2degree increments... Just depends on the outer tooth count and how that compares to the five 'spokes' in your original gears????

There you go - Steptoe Verniers!

Im convinced. Though will still need ne adapters making up as well as my redesigned seal plates for both engine and head.

Go to sort the rust out on the car first. No point building the engine if i dont have a car to put it in.

Any one want to sponser me with machining work?? LOL

Sorry not been posting on here, been busy getting the f1s ready for their first test so been working since 9 to this time every night!!! I have done the same as Mini Sprocket using the orig long mini 3/8 unc head studs and the original head bolts. As mine isn't a turbo the clamping force isn't a huge factor. On the cam front i have bought a belt drive kit for the sealing plate and am making the pulleys from "pulley bar" to the utilise the original oil seals on the belt drive kit. Got time to get on with the engine after monday so should be able to help some more.