steering at 150 bhp problem
Turbo Mini Forums

Extra offset with the vented flanges is only a problem if you don't get wheels with the correct offset to suit them .... I never noticed any greater wear rate using them on swivels or wheel bearings.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Change your wheels mate!!

I'll bring mine with me when I come to see your car ... just so you can feel the difference first hand ... trust me you'll be shocked!!!!

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

thanks roger thats a v kind offer ,better get down here soon b4 i throw it in the hedge !!lol

so progress so far ,castor 5.5 camber 1.5,tracking 1/16 toe out ..
adjustable gaz shocks ,smootha ride cones (just to see what they are like)took it ofr a blast hmmm ,still bit diabolical specially on bumpy rd s above 60 also back end now wants to come round a bit and turn in less sharp .
checked tyre pressures 24 one side 27 the other set both at 24 ,shocks were set at 5 clicks from soft so set them at 10 clicks form soft ,try again
hmmm
bit better more stable turn in better back end seems less twitchy front end has settled a bit to 3 mm off bump stops .
deductions are ,
1)too much wheel offset at 3.5mm needs to be around 20 to 25mm inset or as its known positive offset to get king pin inclination point at roughly the centre of the wheel wdth .
2)due to softer cones the car rolls more and so the neg at the back is not enough and so the back loses grip.. more neg needed at the back if i keep the smootha ride cones ,
3)turn in a bit less snappy cos toe out is now 1/16 instead of 1/8 but car more stable at steady speed on bumpy rds .
4)steering not too heavy but feel not so sensitive due to greater castor ,may try less castor if i can get offset changed.

plan is to machine down the flanges a bit and the mounting face of the wheel to get it in as far as poss ,then work from there ,alternatively ,get some second hand 6 by 13 revs with a much bigger offset and have the oportunity to run a gtreater range of tyres hmm ..first thing is to get the wheel off and see how much i can reduce the offset machining wize ,

oh that reminds me roger you said this a while back ,


"Perfect offset" for 13x6, with 175/50/13s, is ET19


where does that offset nos come from ,is that your result of experimentation ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

double post

Edited by robert on 24th Apr, 2007.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

That number came from measuring my car and doing some geometry.

Also, for teh sake of interest, what the ERA turbos ran if I have been informed correctly!

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

thank you roger thas great , i found this article
http://www.brendel.com/racing/front_end_geo.shtml

and its v intersting , it would appear that a side effect of a lot of castor( apart from feeling sick ) is that it raises the car at the back reducing grip at the back ..also so does a lot of offset ,i dont know if the type of effect on a really light kart can be applied to a mini ,but it may explain why my car feels less stable at the rear now.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

i forgot to say ,with my car if accelerating hard at 50 ,if it hits a patch of sand on the rd ,and the inside wheel spins ,then the car will pull hard to the right ,this then stops after the sand ,is your car with that offset immune to that sort of thing roger ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I don't think you will ever complete get rid of that behaviour on a mini unless you go for truely equal, length, diameter and weight, driveshafts. I must admit that the 'equal length' kits I have seen have left me a little unconvinced as they seem to use the same shafts but forget that the extension piece has mass too.

I think you would also find it only really helps with a non locking LSD diff such the Quaife.

My car is however very nice to drive and has never once caused me a problem with a big sideways jump, even on slippy cotswold lanes covered in mud ...... the dent on the front is because the handbrake is crap not due to any driving problems .... LOL

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

ah that sounds encouraging thank you roger , you have around 160 bhp and a cross pin diff is that correct ?
steve whats your wheel size and offset ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

In a previous car yes, currently I only have my NA 1380 (122bhp and cross pin). Broke my heart when I stripped her but it had to be done as I needed a Mini that I could use for a 200 mile daily commute And was skint. Kept the shell and wheels but sold on everything else, dark days.

Edited by RogerM on 23rd Apr, 2007.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

more research ..
so i went to my friendly mini man(hi martin)and measured a load of wheels to see what the offset was ..
bl cooper 5by10=34.5mm pos
bl 5by12 ally= 33.5mm pos
bl 4.5by12steel= 34mm pos

so thats all the stock british leyland wheels at 34 ish

then tried
metro 5.5by13=47.5mm pos
alleycat 5.5by13=17.5mm pos
dunlop 5.5by 10=18.5 pos
my rev 6by12 =3mm pos

so it looks like ideally id have 34mm pos offset ,hmmm
then did a scale drawing of the flange and kingpin and worked out that the face of the flange hits the ground 57.5mm outboard of the king pin line !!!
so even with a 34mm inset im still 23mm odd outside the centre steering point .hmmm
this all assuming the face of the tyre centerpoint is the middle of the tyre tread which may not be the case with neg camber..
work continues...

Edited by robert on 24th Apr, 2007.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I used to have that on my clubby your best bet is to either check the blots that secure it in place or to change the rack. It was the rack that went on me

very bizare though for a rack to give up the ghost?!?!

Mind you I was runnig like nearly 200bhp so I never had to steer to overtake! lol

when i drove a 10" wheeled Mini last it felt insane !

I wonder where the king pin line would fall in relation to that lot with metro hubs...

the metro hubs i have are the mini spares ones i didnt put them on cos they move the wheel out another 4mm!i dont know if they are diff to stock metty ones inset wize ,.
i am now investigating moving the drive flange in 30mm by machining it where it meets the bearing ! will research this today , my biggest concern is wether there will be enough spline length to be secure between the cv joint and flange ...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Robert,

I worked it out for 175/50/13's running 29psi tyre pressures.

Camber set to 1.25 actual neg (was playing beween 1 and 1.5 neg at the time so ssplit the difference)

Also don't forget the effects of the castor trail.....

I always run vented discs on my turbos so you have to factor in the drive flanges and all my NA motors run Metro 4 pots on solids.

When you measured the rims I assume that you measured the face to a flat surface the wheel was sitting on then removed the rim / bead land (so calculated to what would be the centre of the tyre point effectively (inside and outside beads are not always equal).

I will do it all again when I get time to before I build my car as I will be using split rims so as to get as close as possible to the ideal set-up.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

The offsets I quoted where worked out as per the way the offset is calculated to be marked on wheels. When I say 19 to 22 offset I mean ET19 to ET22

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

thanks roger , thats really usefull info your giving me
i remeasured the met flanges and they were 6mm further out than the mni ones ,so you have 14mm inset on your car in total ,i had a happy time at the yard yesterday ,finding two mini flanges and a xr3 disc ,to play with ,then did a bonzer job of machinig down the flanges ,2mm off the face and 3mm off the bearing end ,and then made a total pigs ear oif machining the flange face on the wheel ,those revs are some orrible soft ally ,so will have to get those done by someone with better tools and ability !!lol
the xr3 disc had the right offest to go with the length off the flange ,but wouldnt clear the caliper cos the body of it was too big .bummer .i might try some 13s on it todaY FFROM A LOCAL CHAP.OOPPSoops,there are some 49mm insets off a metro i may try ...

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

hmmm v impressed by what you wrote on the wheels q roger , i do know there a revolution with 21mm inset 13 by 6 ... oh no more money ..

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Robert, yes mate.

Superlight can do ET20ish offset if you order directly from Gloucester (assuming you like Minilight looks)

Compromotive can also do the ML (and probably several others) in ET20ish on a 6" rim.

The problem comes when you walk into a Mini place or somewhere like MWS and buy what they have on the shelf.

Be careful with Metro rims .... they may well run into .... well everything.. :)

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

bit of progress..
heres the tool i made to get inot the back of the wheel




heres a couple of the wheel after 5mm taken off







heres the disc with 3mm taken off the mounting flange ,hers a tip ,the brembo discs are v thick in the flange !(calm down nic )




and here the hubs with 3mm off the base and 2mm off the face .


thats all for now

Edited by robert on 3rd May, 2007.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

why the 3mm off the disc bell?

Is it to get vents onto mini flanges?

its cos the hub is 3mm further into the carrier ,otherwise the disc would hit the steering arm ,so it has to come back outwardss 3mm to match the hub going inwards 3mm ...er ..did that make sense .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM