Remote servo??
Turbo Mini Forums

hi

iv been thinking of the idea of using a remote servo but if i was to do so i would have to fit it into the passenger footwell or inbetween the two dash rails (i will remove the top one for space if need be).
is it ok to fit a remote servo in the car to make space in the engine bay? as i think i/c pipes would get in the way of a normal type servo.

or theses this idea my dad has thought of and thats modifying the brake pedal so the leverage is differnt giving a softer pedal like with a servo? and hes also thought of trying the same with the clutch pedal as its going to be heavy with the grey diaphram etc (not that im to botherd about the clutch rely)

what do you lot think i should do?


cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

Modifying the pedals will mean they need more travel and there isn't really room as they, especially the clutch, end up as close to the bulkhead as you'd like anyway!

Why not mount it under a wing??? Done that a few times with no problems.

I must admit though that I am not a fan of servos on Minis. I' rather have the stiffer pedal and mor feel personally.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

I'd second that, I feel a lot of modern cars are overservo'd i'd far rather push a bit harder, or go to bigger discs.

Hi,
I can't see a problem with putting it under the dash. I've seen it done before.
I've seen one on the back of a handbrake too!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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My Mini build diary

well i thought i wouldnt like servos but i drove my sisters mini which has a servo and it felt better, although it might of felt better because it has bigger disks?
also with a sercvo iv found that you have to press so hard somtimes, you start to loose the feel of the brakes (if you no what i mean?
i have the minispares 4 pots for 7.5" discs and the pedal doesnt feel me with confidence all the time! (it feels good somtimes but usaly needs a slight pump) there is no air in the system, rear brakes are adjusted propoly, and there is no play in the wheel bearings. the one thing that has crossed my mind is the ruber hoses rather than the braided type, could this be the proplem? iv mentioned it to a few people and they have siad to fir a servo and it will feel better, so i was gong to give it ago.

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

A servo will make the brake feel worse .... longer, softer pedal always worries me.

I know most of you prefer 10" wheels but the whole reason I don't like 10" wheels personally is the fact that to me the package doesn't inspire confidence. There is no tyre that works well in all conditions (by which I mean hot sticky tarmac to cold wet winter slush) and I have no confidence in the brakes.
Fit proper size wheels, 8.4" discs and a decent set of four pots and you'll never look back IMHO.

Back to your problem there should be no reason why the brake feel is inconsistent on a properly maintained system. You come across as the sort of fellow that isn't going to go half measures so I am going to make some assumptions;

1)Your brake fuild is changed regularly.
2)Everything is mounted as it should be and in a good state of repair
3)All components are matched (correct rear wheel cylinders for cars with disc brakes, rear pressure regulator correctly adjusted.
4) drums and discs all round and true.

I don't like normal flexibles with 4 pots, the extra fluid that needs to be moved for them means you are usually deeper into the pedal than you would be on normal brakes thus any expansion of the hoses is felt more. It must be said however the difference between rubber and braided is minimal unless your using pedal bending loads!

Inconsistent braking can be due to local fluid boiling and getting clean, fresh, fluid through the whole of a 4 pot caliper can be a pain in the butt. It doesn't take much old fluid loaded with water behind a piston to make the brakes less than reassuring though so maybe a bleed dry and refill.

The only thing that springs to mind is wear / flex in the pedal and pushrod assembly, including loose bolts/nuts. It's unusal for the pedal assembly to wear or crack but it's worth a look.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

cheers roger ill have a look at all of the above.
when you say bleed dry and then refill do you mean just open up all the bleed nipples then pumping the brake untill its compleatly empty?
then refill with NEW DOT4? any particular brand?
also is it hard to fit braided hoses while the engine is all in place? as if im bleeding the system dry i may aswell fit them then?? if its possible/not to fiddly?

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

All the engine bay plumbing should be hard lines IMHO.

The front and rear flexis are easy enough to change.

You don't have to completely drain the system if you have known good fluid in there, although I always do.

What I normally do is;

take out the brake pads,
pump the pedal until pistons on disc surface.
back of slightly to release caliper.
clip off or disconnect the flexis
open bleed nipples and push pistons back fully home.

Not 100% but 98% there doing it this way.

Either reconnect or replace flexis and then bleed out new fluid.

I usually put a full litre through the system before I make any attempt to do a final bleed if I have repalced any wet components or bleed it dry. To my mind my life is worth more than a litre of brake fluid.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

If your going to replace the fronts for braided lines go for the ones with and angled bango fitting at the caliper end .... makes it much easier to keep them off the suspsension components and thus MOT man happy! Even more useful on a really low car...

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

im keeping the engine bay lines as hard, what i mean is to replace the rubber hoses that connect to the calipers for the braided types, iv got some goodbridge(??) types for the front waiting to go on, but ill needto get the ones for the rear.
also do you think my mater cylinder could be on its way out? its always been in the back of my mind!

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

Possible but normally they fail in a big way if single line or with obviosuly little effort on one circuit if a split.

Get upside down in the footwell and have a look behind the rubber boot around the push rod. Any fluid there and it's not healthy.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Josh, Just my opinion.
Fit a servo passenger side under the dash.
Reason:- Why should you have to Gorilla the brake pedal to stop? Your right foot can modulate the acelerator pedal to a fine degree so why not the same for the brake pedal.
How can you have fine control of the car when you are trying to push the seat off it's mountings just to get maximum braking effort?
Use the lighter pedal a servo will give you and develop a sensetive feel for what is happening.
It works for me anyway
Regards
Dave

What pads are you using?

i had exactly the same setup as you with greenstuff pads and it was shite. I changed to a set of kad grooved discs and mintex pads and the difference is incredible.

Calum, I went from Mintex to EBC years ago and found teh EBC better. Still nothing beats the normal road pads from Ferrodo for normal road work IMHO.

I was scared stiff by the total lack of braking from cold with the Mintex pads (1144's).

Horses for courses.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

calum i had green suff on the normal 8.4 disc but ground down.
the only time i felt conidece was at donny were the brakes were hot! i now use black stuff and the pedals better but feels as said above!
the black stuff pads work good from cold which is good for me atm as its my everyday drive.
i was thinking of fitting the spacer kit for the cailipers and the metro turbo discs ground down, not sure wether it would make any differnce.
who has fitted the braided hoses to the front cailipers with the engine all in place? was it a pig to do?

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

i use the rover cooper servo and still fit everything under the bonnet. and i've got a van

I actually found the bite from cold the biggest improvement with mine, maybe it's just down to different setups.

I was told, by kad, that ebc are quite inconsistent, might go some way to explaining why people have very differing opinions of them?

As far as hoses go, aslong as the current stuff isn't badly seized on it should be quite straightforward

i dont run a servo and i have a lot of HP

my right foot compensates by shoving a little harder, thats all a servo does makes it easyer on the pedal

it wont give you any more braking power

mind you i have no room for one

i think i might just make sure my brkaes are all in good order, (change the rubber hoses for braided onse and put fresh fluid through the system etc.

would i need to chnage the size of my master cylinder?
as iv heard of changing it for differnt sized onse to make the pedal feel differnt etc?
i have what ever one is standerd for a 1987 889 mayfair with 8.4" discs (now running minispares 4 pots for 7.5" discs)

anythoughts about that?

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

i use the braded hoses and metro 4 pots and use the standard round type master cylinder

I have to disagree with Steve I am afraid. I really don't like single line brakes .... I had a hose failure about 10 years ago on a Mini and the complete lack of brakes reulted in a "controlled crash" as an attempt to make the corner I was approaching at the speed I would have arrived there at would have resulted in a potentially fatal uncontrolled one!!! It is gutting to deliberately throw a car into the hedge but sometimes it's a better option than finding the front end of whatever is coming the other way around the blind bend!!!!

Since that day I have always run dual line brakes on everything I have built.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the front/rear split tandem master cylinder and if you get a problem you'll still have some redartation available so hopefully the only thing that will be beyond repair is your underpants!!

Make sure that the regulator valve on the bulkhead is working ok, I have had more problems with them than the master cylinders over the years.

The one your looking for has a part number that ends in 227 and a yellow plastic band on it.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

ok roger im not 100% sure about were the regulator valve is nor is my dad (for a change)
so i have single line brakes? is that the type that goes corner to corner?
how would i change it to the front and rear split?

cheers
josh

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985

Josh ... if you have a stumpy round master cylinder (like the clutch) you have single line brakes (i.e. 1 source for all 4 wheels)

If you have a long thin master cylinder with a plastic resovior on the side you have a tandem / split system.

The regulator / valve is the the lump on the bulk head face near the engine steady bar mounting. 2 pipes in the top, 2 out of the bottom.

If the two pipes from the bottom then tee off so one goes to a front brake and one to a rear you have a diagonal split.

If the two pipes don't spilt and one loops around the front subframe to both sides at the front and the other goes under the car to the back then you have a front to rear split, which is what I believe to be the best blend of performance and safety.

Hope that helps a little.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

Just a note on that valve, it's there so that if one line of the tandem suddenly looses pressure (say a hose failure) the valve blocks that off so you can have a near normal pedal travel wise to the other part of the system so you can still stop ..... well the car will stop, you will stop but your undercrackers will still be beyond repair

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...

deleted double post

Edited by RogerM on 15th Feb, 2007.

Every day is a school day ...........

How fast and how expensive ...... the same question...