General Advice For A Total Novice!
Turbo Mini Forums

Hey all,

I'v been recently interested about turbo'ing my 91 1275 cooper when i finish uni, as iv got some savings iv been putting away for a while.

Trouble is - im a TOTAL mechanical novice - im not bad working stuff out myself though and getting my hands dirty so im sure il pick it all up soon enough.

I know a few basics like the T2 and T3 are popular turbos to go for and you need a lower compression ration, but iv got a few question id still like to ask.


What turbos are recommended. I understand the Garrett ones are popular, but why. What alternatives are there and what positives/negatives do they have?

Secondly, what kind of timescale is needed to remove my 1275, bore the engine out to (insert recommended overbore size here), do the headwork necessary and put it all back together with the turbo bits inside. ( Providing iv already been compiling off the shelf parts like pistons, turbo, manifolds, fuel pump etc ect. )

Also, what kind of tools are needed that the average joe might not have. I for example dont have a welder, engine crane etc

Finally, I am aware of the old adage you can have 2 of the following three but no more (reliability, power, cheap), and although id like to say budget shouldnt be that much of an issue, there comes a point where a limit needs to be set.

I have no quarms buying 2nd hand bits, but are there second hand bits you should steer clear of? ie dont use 2nd hand pistons or specific turbos....

More questions to come no doubt once these have been answered!

I hope iv made sense and not appeared like a total plonker. Thanks for your help guys!

What turbos are recommended

As you've mentioned in your post the Garrett T3 (off the Metty Turbo) & Garrett T2 (off the Renualt 5 Turbo) are the most popular followed by the GT17 (off the SAAB 95) The problem is there aren't many small turbo's out there to choose from, and if you go for a socking gurt big thing off a Cosworth it'll take a month of sundays to spin up and will make for a car that's pretty undrivable.

what kind of timescale is needed to remove my 1275, bore the engine out to (insert recommended overbore size here), do the headwork necessary and put it all back together with the turbo bits inside

The first time I removed and engine it took me two days and a lot of swearing these days it probably takes less than an hour. As for getting the block re-bored etc it really depends on what machine shop you use, mine normally takes a day or two. There's also a few other things you'll need to change along the way, so you might want to have a look at this guide:

http://www.turbo-mini.com/62147.html

Noting that the chap who did the conversion in 20 hours knows his stuff and has built several turbo minis in the past.

I have no quarms buying 2nd hand bits, but are there second hand bits you should steer clear of?

Turbos with excessive play in the shafts.

Ok thanks Rob!

Time wise - could you give a kind of scale. I'v never taken out an engine, so lets say that take 3 days (being generous). From the time the engine's out. How many weeks does it take to strip it all down and then build it all up again. Im thinking its going to be a month give or take with a good few hours work a day on it. Is that realistic?

I also meant to ask a budget question.

What is a realistic price to say its going to cost - ie Machining work (block, head & crank), mirage manifold (or alternative which means no bulkhead mods), and other off the shelf bits - pistons, turbo, intercooler, cam etc etc.?

Oh also, does a T2 give less boost than a T3 or does it just come in at lower rev ranges?

Im looking for something thats more torquey than long range brute strength, but i still dont want to be running out of steam at 65 on the motorway.

Thanks in advance guys!

I think that the cost/time questions that you are asking are always the most difficult.The only sure thing is that it will take longer and cost more than whatever you estimate !

To start with, why not spend some of that time on trawling through the search function. You will not only learn a good deal but will probably enjoy reading what you find.I guess it took me about 12 months from knowing nothing about turbos to getting an engine running reasonably well but I will need another 12 years to understand it all well.
I,m reluctant to put a figure on it in case it gets back to my wife but, working to a shoestring budget I guess I have spent at least £1000.

We do have an excellent FAQ section and search facility. Most questions have been asked and answered many times and the threads can be found very easily

Paul

I seriously doubt it!

Have a read of this thread:

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=241013

It's basically a load of links to all the best bits of info on here.

Just my opinion but if you've never built an engine before I would prob pay to get the short motor built buy a pro the costs mite not be as bad as you think I got quoted 100 to do the build inc cam timing etc & for me I can make that goin to work a couple hours instead of spending a hell of a lot more time doin it couple hours hear & there & after that its just the bigger bits box head manifolds etc etc 1 small mistake on the short motor & all that money & time could be wasted I don't think you can go to wrong with the rest after that bits done right

Scott - 100 quid for the labour to build an engine? Seems like you got a ruddy good deal! I take it that was with you providing all the bits necessary for assembly?

Tadge44 - you say yours has cost 1k on a shoestring budget. That sounds fine to me and i would be willing to be spending around the same. Why would you describe your build as shoestring? What bits did you use that are 2nd hand parts & where did you try and save your money?

If its going to take me a lot longer that im planning (ie 1-2 months), would it be better for me to look at building up a separate motor whilst my current one is still in the car.
I envisaged that i would be able to cope without a car for a couple of months whilst i did the work, but if its going to be longer, i might as well start building a whole new engine from the bottom up!

Also, i would really prefer to build it myself. Im really keen to gain the experience and knowledge of how to take out the engine, rebuild it and put it back together again. Id much rather spend twice as long getting to know how to fix an engine than spending twice as much for someone else to do it for me - and me being none the wiser as to how it all works!

Does anybody know any garrages in or around South East London who know their engine stuff who i can go to?

Buy an old scrap 998 and haines manual. Take it apart, look, then put it back together. Repeat until you know what you are doing properly and you know you're way around them

Yeh that was me providing all parts & it was green & white mini spares durham who said 100 as they said it would take about 5hours I built my last one me self & it took me about 2weeks off & on inc paint etc but the pistons were them budget +40 things from mini spares & they died very fast lol that's why iam gona get another motor built also what power you aiming for & boost ect

Yeah, this is exactly why I want to do it myself.
I think il just take my chances on my current engine.
If it took you 2 weeks to do it with all the parts previously purchased, il take a stab in the dark at double that because iv never done it before - so a month timescale would sound reasonable which is good!

In terms of boost, im not too sure to be honest! This is one area of turbo'ing i dont really know about. All i know is the metty turbo runs 4psi up to 7psi, but is that a lot or not?? - im guessing its half decent?

I would like to be able to feel some kind of kick when the turbos on boost rather than a dull surge if that makes any difference.

Taking a TOTAL stab in the dark, id like to produce a bit more than a metty turbo as per standard, to lets say around 9-10psi? Would that be a reasonable expectation for a build on a fair budget?

I'v heard people run 20psi but i take it thats using some kind of super-engine thats cost serious moolar?

Oh, and power wise, id like to be aiming for 120 - 130 bhp (ish).

Iv seen the PDF on generic mods needed relative to BHP output and that seems like a fair figure to shoot for.

Its also going to be used for an every day car, so i dont want something thats so powerful its almost not fun to drive.

For 120/130 go for a near standard rebuild maybe an MG cam and a bit of head work (also get a x-pin diff in there) run an R5 spec T2 on a mirage manifold, decent intercooler and about 10/12psi and away you go!

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

In relative terms, how much is running 10-12psi?

ie from a scale of 1-10 how much boost from what is possible?

Its a bit over a standard metro turbo which produces 95nana's on 7psi the extra 3-5psi isn't a massive amount more. A little drop in compression ratio, an intercooler and careful setup make this a very (relatively) easy and practical setup.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

well 200hp is usually about 22psi, but varys between setups.

yeah it'll be a decent kick up the arse,

Lovely job.

Sorry for SO many questions, but:

If the metty runs 95 'nanas' at 7psi with the extra 3-5psi not being 'a massive amount more', is running 12psi realistically going to produce 130bhp?

Reason i ask is because at the moment, 'psi' doesnt really hold a 'physical boost value' for my brain - its just a number. Without knowing how much a single psi adds to bhp im just a bit confused!

Does that make sense?

In my experience anything over about 6psi gives a bit of a kick. 12psi is quite a big kick. Never been in anything with more than 15psi but I would imagine the effect is magnified.

If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of.

the std metty has no intercooler, adding one is pretty much the first thing you should do, and you'll pick up a few horses even on a std lump,

On 30th Jan, 2011 carts60 said:
Lovely job.

Sorry for SO many questions, but:

If the metty runs 95 'nanas' at 7psi with the extra 3-5psi not being 'a massive amount more', is running 12psi realistically going to produce 130bhp?

Reason i ask is because at the moment, 'psi' doesnt really hold a 'physical boost value' for my brain - its just a number. Without knowing how much a single psi adds to bhp im just a bit confused!

Does that make sense?

well my old impreza type ra ran about a bar which is 14.sumit just under 15 psi & when it come on boost you certanly felt it & that was a 2L so imagine 12psi on a 1.3 you deffo know when ya on boost also thats pritty much the spec iam goin for std turbo pistons, turbo phil head, mod exhaust manifold & elbow, titan roller rockers, avonbar phase 2 cam, intercooler, 12psi hopefully 130bhp min & i'll be happy

Ok, sticking to the same thread of my newbie questions:

(Iv had a look on the search function to no avail, before somebody suggests doing so)

Im looking to bore the block out so the engine isnt so laggy until the turbo comes on. What is the best overbore to go for and final capacity of the engine to have.

I'v heard a 1293 is the best, but other things iv read suggest a 1380?

Ideally, i'd still like to have a couple of overbores left in the block so i can still have a tinker at a later date.

Basically, is there any preference between turbo'ing a 1275, 1293, 1310, 1330 or 1380 in terms of overall power production and lagginess.