No Go * Updated* It F*k*n Runs!
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi guy's, got all my edis and crank sensor etc installed today, have left the jolt for now, as I want to prove the rest of it works before adding that to the equation.

However, the barsteward thing will not start for love nor money, I've triple checked everything and tried different edis and coils.

Problem is that the engine really struggles to crank over with the plugs in. take them out and it turns ok, I can get a spark on all cylinders with the plugs out... but it wont fire when they are in.

I'm thinking that the because it is turning so slowly, the crank sensor is not giving a proper signal to fire??

It's a brand new starter and battery, and we tried multiple batteries as well to no avail.

cr is about 8-1 ....

Any help would be appreciatted..

Edited by Kean on 15th Feb, 2006.

if you have a spark i would check the timing is right on the disc

1293 Turbo mini

It is installed correctly, if it were out it would be popping and farting everywhere which it isnt.

When all the plugs are in, causing the engine to turn slowly, there is no spark.

Anyone agree with my theory?

If you have 2 and 3 the wrong way around,It don't pop and fart,Just runs rough.Ive done that and bud 666 I think

Metro turbo weekend driver,Mini turbo in the making again!

No m8, the leads are def right. I just think its not sparking cos the trigger wheel is turning so slow

Have no idea why it is so slow, I can turn it by hand with the crank damper........

yup, we've been outside on it most of the day now.

it'll spin over fine with the plugs out, and they all make a spark albeit a dull orange colour rather than a nice blue spark.

as soon as the plugs go in it really struggles to spin over like the battery's flat.

there's a 306td battery fitted at the minute, we've tried jump starting, booster packs, even took my battery off and tried that too.


We just aren't getting anything at all. you know on a normal dizzy if you've got the timing out and it splutters and spits back through the carb and stuff, its not even doing that, not a thing. really miffed by it all.


Anyone got any suggestions at all please?

have 3 plugs in and check the other plug thats out is firing to test the not fast enough theory?

maybee an earth problem that when the starter is under more load with compression its not drawing the current? my best 2 ideas:)

I know if its turning over slowly it could be cos the timing is a long way out and trying to fire at the wrong time. It happened to mine. Once I got the timing set close it turned over faster.

do you need the megajolt lplugged in to get it working?

it does sound like a timing problem to me.

why dont you put the dizzy back in and fire it up (will only take a minute) if it fires up its obviously a ignition problem.

no longer a series, but still 1.3 turbo.

where do you have your 12v supplys coming from? is it from a supply that is 'off' when cranking?

my coil is fed straight from the solenoid
the unit itsself is coming from the brake light switch supply

it wont be plug order as it is wasted spark and they all fire together

its not a supply problem, I have tried running the edis off a seperate battery.

it doesnt need the megajolt to run.

hmm it uses a 10deg fixed advance/retard when used without the megajolt

im on 33deg at my start up point

that shouldnt stop it running though should it, I know mate started his fine on just edis

?

Have you used the right plugs to go with the EDIS setup? What about the plug gaps, you could try widening them? Also you may have flooded it trying to start it, take the plugs out and heat them on the gas stove to burn any crap off and warm them slightly. Is the crank sensor air gap to the trigger pullet correct? Have you mounted the sensor in the right place, e.g 90 degrees anticlockwise from the bore centreline when looking at the crank pulley end on?

All those are just the ideas off the top of my head.....you may have already checked some of them. But sometimes fresh ideas help with things like this!

Sensor is right, have cleaned the plugs numerous times, sensor gap is about 0.5mm

cheers for the suggestions guys

I'd try bunging the dizzy back in, swing it to get it running. Then with it running set it to 10 degrees advance with the strobe at as low a speed as you can. Then turn the engine off, and see if it will fire up at 10 degrees or not, with the vac adv disconnected. If it won't, and turns over slowly, you may have found the reason it won't fire up on the EDIS.

yeah i think that may our last ditch attempt to get it running.

the main problem is that keans dizzy was stuffed which is why he's gone for the jolt. if its comes to it we can always stick my dizzy onto it again seeing as we'll be trying my starter on it tomorrow aswell...

Cheers for all the advice and suggestions dudes. we we're thinking we'd missed something really stupid thats all.

If I were you, rather than bugger about removing the dizzy from your car bud, I'd lash the MegaJolt up quickly with croc clips whatever, and load a basic map into it to see if you can get it to fire with different base timing.

I am sure Nic would let you have a copy of his map to use for the time being to get you up and runnning??

Hi,
Sounds to me like a high resistance/bad connection in the power supply to the starter. With all the spark plugs in, disconnect the coil pack and crank the engine over. If it cranks well the the timings out. If it cranks slow, then it's starter cables or connections. I'm fairly local to you guys, give me a shout if you want a hand! Long time sparkie and mapped ignition fitter!
Cheers,
Gavin. :)

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bat, cheers for the offer. If we still have no joy after tomorrow then we'll give you a shout, not sure where in brum you're from but we're about 5 mins from J10. :)

i think our best bet is to have another crack at it tomorrow with fresh eyes and go over the whole lot again, just to make sure it isn't something stupid and glaringly obvious. The battery is on charge atm to rule that out for definate, and we're going to give my starter a try cos i know it works.....
will try all the other suggestions aswell dudes they're much appreciated :)

Am i missing something here:
The engine cranks ove fine with no plugs in, but as soon as you re-fit them (and hence the starter has to do some work), it won't turn over???

Is this not suggesting that there is a problem with the starter - OR that for whatever reason, there isn't a decent voltage between the starter terminal and the body of the starter when cranking?
Put a meter between the transfer case and the terminal on the starter and see what it drops to when cranking, and the plugs in, but the coil disconnected. Anything over 10.5volts is good. Anything under 10volts is a big no-no...

On my ECU, I run a live from the battery itself, rather than the solenoid...You drop a fair voltage along that long cable, and if your battery isn't too healthy to begin with, chances are the EDIS won't fire (I know many ECU's call it a day at 9volts)...

Stick the plugs in the oven and warm them up, as you've probably soaked them through aswell.

we were hoping it's not the starter as its a brand new one from minispares. not a recon one, but thats not a guarantee i know...

there was 11.5V when cranking, also powered the EDIS from my battery while cranking to rule out a voltage drop causing a problem. we tried extra engine earths, using a jump lead as another battery earth etc.....All this electrical stuff is foreign to me, its a good job kean's a sparky though

i have tried this before when banger racing ect.

conect another 12v bat between the starter cable and the starter motor this will 24 v the starter motor thus giving you a greater cranking speed, but dont do it for long as it will eventually bugger up you starter motor. but its worth a try if you are suffering from slow turn over speeds.

is the engine new!.

always looking for them bigger bunches of bannanas