Clutch Oil Seal - SORTED ???
Turbo Mini Forums

Thats the axial clearance.

I'm talking about the bore of the bush. The radial clearance is too high.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Good to see you have found the root cause Axel, a methodical approach always produces the goods in the end, well done.

I've got araldite sealling a few of my own transfer case holes (behind the idler gear). It's far from ideal - but I've never had any evidence of it leaking.
Chemical metal would deffo be more secure, or a touch of TIG magic, but going from my experience I'd try the araldite for size.

Dave,

Thanks for the reassurance.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

those floating bushes are shat, mine was dead (proper style) in 15,000 miles. Now thats fine if you intend on taking the motor out every year or whatever, but i suspect you wont be doing that on a road engine!

After i changed it i was pretty easy on the clutch aswell!!!!

I've seen the future and tbh its Pie

I've had the same floating bush for 16k miles now...
Never had a single problem with it ???

I use some grease on the bush when installing the primary gear.

On the floating bush id be greasing both running surfaces too.

mine was installed with 20-50 and a new top hat togo with it. I took it out not long ago to find the bush had some contamination damage (slgiht) and the clearance on the crank was about 10 or so thou with another few or so thou between the gear and the bush.

Edited by andeh on 9th Sep, 2006.

I've seen the future and tbh its Pie

As posted elsewhere it's gone again.

Only took an hour to get at it!

Heres a picture


Looks to me that it is the seal. The puddle below the primary gear is the clue, I think.

I've taken lots of other photos of the inside and there does not seem to be any other reason for the oil leak.

Have I pushed the seal in too far? I've used the Minispares tool and that has a shoulder that fits the seal about 1mm into the housing. I've read elsewhere it should be flush.

Edited by Paul S on 13th Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

I am wondering if we are looking too deeply into the seal issue, when maybe something else could be causing this problem?

Is the engine a newly built one, perhaps blowby before the rings bed in is pressurising the crankcase and pushing oil over the seal? What breathers do you have on this engine?

Tom,

It's a newly built engine. Well, I've re-ringed and shelled it. The cylinders were honed.

Anyway, it passed the MOT emmission test this morning, so it's not burning a lot of oil.

It's got the clutch case and timing case breathers on and they are open to atmosphere, so I can't see them causing a problem.

I am getting a swish-swish noise from the oil pump at idle and the oil pressure bounces from 30 to 50 psi with the noise. I think it is just the relief valve ball bouncing on the seat. I don't think it is related to the oil leak.

The oil pump came with the cam from Swiftune and is a steel backed on. It could be high pressure/capacity.

The only way that oil could be pushed past the seal would be if it was hitting it at high velocity as it came out the main bearing behind the primary gear. Is this likely?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

sounds like something is jamming up in the PRV, have you taken it apart to see if there is anything blocking it up?

I know its a pain to check, but is the gasket between the oil pump and block sealing ok?

Air could be drawn into the pump causing air cavitations, causing the oil pressure to rise and fall?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

a few pointers from me

is there any float on the Main Bearing next to the seal ????

have you tried the minispares BLACK uprated seal

also i hope you have not nicked the new seal on the splines of the primary gear when installing it by not placing tape over the splines to protect the seal a common one

i think it could run to an engine out to investigate fully!!!!!! and put this to bed

i had a very similar problem, im using minisport drops and had two minispares seals that leaked i got one from m&MS it were just a cheap looking one that had a smooth lip on it and it cured it! i didnt get to the bottom of why it leaked with the better looking tighter fit seal it just did lol. i had fitted the seals properly on all occasions.

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=10101

no longer a series, but still 1.3 turbo.

Hi,
OK this is probably the most stupid thing I'm ever going to post, but hey who gives a **** ......
I think the oil pump is pissing oil out of the side of it onto the back of the primary gear seal. The seal cannot cope with this and is passing oil. The stuffed up oil pump is also causing the pressure fluctuations, the swishing noise could well be the oil coming out of the pump.
Well what do you think?
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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LOGICAL! this falls in the realms of a strip down & your thinking has not to be over looked Bat

iam gona quote.....

"Donald Rumsfeld" on this one!...lol

just for now! untill the advice up above is investigated

HERES THE LINK: .........

http://www.humorisdead.com/rumsfeld/

HERES THE LINK:

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Might be another stupid question, but you do have the dowels between the trans houising and gearbox?

Only reason a seal would 'let go' is because the inner & outer surfaces aren't concentric, excess pressure behind the seal or a poor seal surface (unlikely given you've tried a few primary gears).

The other two are pretty easy to check.

No questions are stupid when you are as desparate as me.

Just checked, both dowels are in place.

I'm going to check for runout and concentricity once I've got the seal out.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

order couple of them as i got two and they were both different sizes one was a loostish fit and one a very very tight fit i used the looster of the two.

how about the black seal that has been suggested above i never tried on of them.?

no longer a series, but still 1.3 turbo.

I've been out in the barn measuring up tonight.

The crank is straight, no run-out and no axial movement.

The primary gear runs concentric on the crank, no run-out.

The whole bloody lot rotates in the hole where the seal is located and it's 0.3mm, 0.012" to one side.

All the dowels, engine to box and box to transfer case, are in place and it wont move over. All the parts came from the same engine. I've no reason to think that it hasn't been like that since it was built in the factory - but I could be wrong.

Now that isn't making the seal osilate but it aint right. The seal lip is getting lightly loaded on one side.

Inspecting the three different types of seal I now have, the actual shape of the lip is very different. The LUF1005 has a flat lip, the MS special jobbie has a sharp V shaped lip and an original rover one of the 998 turbo donor has a rounded lip. They are also varying degrees of stiffness, the rover the lightest and the LUF the heaviest.

If any of those seals is going to cope with the variations in face load, it will be the rover one.

Plan A or Plan B. I'll sleep on it. What do you think?

Edited by Paul S on 14th Sep, 2006.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

a quick one

while pushing the seal into place with the engine in situe with the tool

just maybe!! that the snap ring jumps off the seal at the back where you cant see it

i think its an engine out job and put this to bed

If the snap ring had jumoed off though, you would know when you removed the seal afterwards......

I personally would think about trying out the used gen rover seal that you have removed from another engine, and see what happens. If it doesn't work all it will have cost you is a few hours work to try it.

well maybe the 'magic' seal that Carl got from M&M's is a very soft rubber and able to take the lack of concentricity better than the three you mention?
If M&M sell it then it isn't special - it's just cheap - but it might help you out?

have you checked that the crank is in the centre of the hole in the transfer housing?

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