Water injection
Turbo Mini Forums

As im still an apprentice money is virtually non existant so im having to work with what ive got.

Idealy i would like to lower the CR.

The water injection is one that me and a mate are developing and it works on a similar principle to a carb except it uses water instead of fuel and the bleed off pressure is used to atomise the spray.

So far we have the water pressure side of things sorted and were in the process of machning a manifold to link it all together (float chamber, injector and air pressure) , in theory it should work but i'll have to try it n see!

as long as the engine doesn't oerheat and doesn't pink is there any reason why i couldn't keep it at 12psi?

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Grinding the chambers in a head costs nothing especially if you have access to the right tools which it sounds you do.

But, you need to know what you're doing!

As with anything

matty

if you keep it out of the dark side of detonation fine!
but i doubt it very much without an intercooler and the C/R your running

but soon as the weather heats up
12psi iam sure you will be in the dark side again

regarding water suppression again!

forget this my friend you would be better off putting your energies to more worthwhile mods

have a play fine but you have been advised

Matty, I dont no that much about water injection but from what i have read it can reap great rewards and very impresive power gains not to mension a cleaner combustion chamber, cleaner emissions, better fuel economy, and better reliability. Which water injection kit have you got, I looked at a setup from the wizards of nos and the system looked very impressive, if i can recall the website is www.wizardsofnos.com
Fitting water injection may be able to solve your pinking problem but i am not 100% sure so dont quote me on it. Another factor that may move your engine from pinking and a meltdown is still water injection but may be to mix water in a 50:50 ratio with metanol or ethanol which ever is easer to find, and use this as a pinking supression, injecting this mixture has a few advantages over just plain water, the methanol adds extra hp aswell as supressing the pinking and also stops the water freezing in the colder months. Another method to try is mixing methanol or ethanol in a 10:1 ratio with your petrol (10 being the petrol) this should raise the octane level of your fuel, i think with standard octane fuel it will increase it to 100RON or just over, also try it with a fuel like shell optimax for higher octane, and experiment with higher ratios of methanol, but be carefull above a certain point the timing may need changing. A word of warning with methanol and ethanol except for it being extremely flamable is its hydroscopic, which means it attracts water which can lead to corrosion of your fuel system, also above a certain ratio of alcohol:petrol the alcohol tends not to mix with the base fuel and will seperate in the fuel tank so as the fuel goes down in the tank the engine could be drinking petrol then almost 100% alcohol. Another simple method would be to cool the petrol down before it is introduced into the hot charged airflow, the cool fuel will take away the high charge temperature. Cooling the fuel could be done with a cool tank/pot, this is a pot with a lid on with a coil of fuel line inside. The coolant to be put in the cool tank can be a mixture of dry ice and alcohol this should be able to cool the fuel enough to cool down the charged air, but like wise if the fuel is too cold you can loose power so the length of the coil needs to be experimented with.

12psi matty?! That's why it felt so poky in newquay then and can fend off a cossie!!

Once you have the intercooler in and limit the boost to 8psi she shouldn't pink at all.

I'd slap the standard actuator on and bleed it up to the pressure you want. Probably a good way to go on a tight budget.

My mate runs water injection on his Ibiza 20vt, it's a bit different, but a waste of time. If it was that great, everyone would do it.

Ive got grinding tools but i really wouldnt know where to start with profiling the chambers to the right shape/size, i'll save that for a winter project when ive got some cash.

As the pinking is so infrequent with an intercooler fitted i recon it might do the job for now, ive got everything i need so should have it ready for Avon.

I keep hearing different opinions about water injection, Its a good point Ric that "if it was that great, everyone would do it" im mainly using it as a safety buffer instead of relying on it to stop the pinking. If i get more power even better.

Im not sure if it would be easier to regulate the water a through photocell sensor on the fly wheel (detecting engine speed) or do it by airflow yet...??

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

Seriously matt, not even worth the hassle of fabricating a kit yourself to do this. Theres been a lot of chat on seatcupra.net about this and pound for pound, they reckon you're better off fitting an IC spray. Although in saying that, Seat bury their intercoolers in the wheel arch...

I know it seems like a backwards step, but i'd wind the boost down a bit and bring the timing back up until you can lower the cr.

From chatting to you at the RR, your engine seems like a pretty decent spec, not worth blowing it to bits.

matty the BEST saftey buffer is ....................

lift your foot of the gas if you hear it pinking!

unless you are def?

Edited by BENROSS on 7th Jul, 2005.

I no it may sound stupid but what does an engine sound like when it begins to detonate, how does it sound compaired to normal running conditions, I have never heard it happen before. If any one could enlighten me (benros) I would be very thankfull.

Thanks alot barkiboi

its rather like this but not as crackley.. SIMLAR BUT rat a ta tat...
only comes on while.............................................................

"ON BOOST!!!!"

rather like a a machine gun but getting faster as the engine revs rise

click on the link and save the sound file

http://home.netcom.com/~bsundahl/knock/sou...ounds.htm#Knock

if you hear a ping lift your foot

its not the best example of an engine..... BUT the A series is rather louder....sort of

study the sound and it will place you in the ball park buddy

i should know i have wiped out two head gaskets! in the past
LUCKY! realy but it could have been a lot worse for me

Ben

Edited by BENROSS on 8th Jul, 2005.

save some money on the water injection,

go to the scrap yard and get another head, attack it and open out the chambers...

hey presto lowered cr, more boost and less pinking

I'm holding on and waiting for a flaming... but...

As i'm not going for mega performance, how much of an exact science is it to open the chambers on a head?

I'm not talking hammer and chisell, but how exact does it need to be?

ric look at this link which was discussed some time back this will place you in the ball park!
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=4068

remove the beak out of the chambers as a basic start thats all that is required

do a serch on heads and see what you find read all the posts and then you will be ALL genned up my friend

ben

Edited by BENROSS on 8th Jul, 2005.

Nice to see people look at what I put on here lol

Ive never heard a ping noise its more of a tapping or ticking noise!

at first i thought it was valve bounce but it only seems to do it when the engine is under load in fourth and hot weather, if it was valve bounce it would do it in all gears i guess.

The only explanation i can think of is pinking, it might not be but the syptoms make me think it is.

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1/4mile in 13.2sec @ 111 terminal on 15psi

yes mike its some nice work you have shown us
i hope you dont mine me using this link to highlight whats the form?

matty, its most likley pinking under load

if you lift your foot under boost
(ie) NO boost
does it disappear ?????

Don't remove the beak.. It'll ruin squish, and promote detonation!

vegard

so what do you suggest buddy ?
keep the beak but slim the profile down of the beak to reduce C/R?

as a basic mod if some of us are on a budget ?

or go the whole hog like mike ?

I would definately leave some of the beak left. It's even better if it's beak-shaped in both ends.
It's a common trick for head grinders to weld up open heads, like Harley Davidson etc. THe principles still apply on an A-series.
This won't increase max hp, but it will help combustion at low rpm. This meaning more torque in the mid range. Those of use that are using a T3 should definately consider this..

In a few weeks, I'll be modifying my own head, so I'll see how it goes :)

Jims round chambers work well!



Guys remember you can run VERY high boost on any setup, but thats only half the story.... rememebr you MUST consider the ignition advance you are running.

The more you retard your timing the more boost you can run - but at the expence of power!

Hence why there is a term in the industry "best spark advance". Thats when you get the best power for a certain ignition timing.

You match boost to timing and vise-versa.

Alex

AlexF