Schedule 40 manifold-- YES..its running... NOOOO its on fire!!
Turbo Mini Forums

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Hi,
That's the way I looked at it.
You can't force water toward the thermostat as it's coming out of there, so it will all flow into the rad, get cooled and back into the engine.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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On the topic of turbo cooling....

My current plan is, (until I change my mind in 5 mins time LOL)

A 15mm pipe from the heater take off to an electric waterpump, then the heater matrix (modded with 15mm inlet/outlet) rejoining at the bottom hose via a 9mm pipe which splits off to the turbo which then feeds back into the top hose.

The pump will run when the engine is running via a resistor, if the temp creeps up the fan temp switch will pull the fan in and turn the pump at full speed.

Yes mine works fine, and goes from the heater take off into the top hose (well now a take off on the rad actually)

Turboshed you are confused about how a radiator works

When fitted as per std the heater matrix cools down the water, so the cooler water goes back into the engine. Fit a turbo here instead and your just heating up the engine

It is a natural law that states heat rises-thus the hottest part of the radiator is at the top, and so, cleverly, it was designed that this would be the input to the radiator. The water then passes through the rad, cools down and enters the engine at a cooler temp. Thus it is ideal if you plumb the turbo to the top hose/to of the rad

Try disconnecting your top hose and watch the water pump out over your car

p.s. the manifold looks really good

Edited by Nic on 1st Jun, 2007.

But the pump generates a higher pressure in the top hose than the bottom hose. It has too to overcome the head loss due to flow through the rad.

So if you connect between the top hose and the heater take off in the bottom hose, wont water will flow in that direction, bypassing the rad?

Afterall, that's how the heater works.

Edited by Paul S on 2nd Jun, 2007.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Hi,
Axel .. The water feed to the turbo comes from the heater take off on the head, not the bottom hose.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

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Edited by Paul S on 2nd Jun, 2007.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Today I bought an infrared temp gauge and pointed it at various bits, weather sunny, humid, 28 degrees

engine warmed up and instrument gauge showing "normal":-

top of rad = 82degC
block near temp sensor 83
heater (turbo) takeoff hose 68
heater (turbo) return hose 68

Engine just run and left to idle for 10 mins, gauge at max

top of rad = 112degC
block near temp sensor 114
heater (turbo) takeoff hose 89
heater (turbo) return hose 89

The engine never really looked overheated, no gurgling sounds no fluid loss but it did drop a little fluid after I turned off (to be fair I had just topped it off yesterday) Also I expected to see some temp rise on the turbo outlet hose?

What do you guys think-- is my instrument gauge just reading high?? and whats going on with the turbo cooling?

Terry

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

At first sight I'd guess the turbo cooling is a "dead leg" with no water flowing through it? Hence the temperature there is just heat moving through the volume of water?

I'm wondering if theres an airlock in the turbo..

I think I'll disconnect the drain side and see whats going on, maybe suck some water through the turbo to check for flow and eliminate any airlocks..

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

I removed the return hose, added a length of transparant hose and reconnected it. There is plenty of flow coming through the turbo, Maybe the points I am measuring (2 brass 90's) are not giving a true reading, anyway I am confident the leg is OK and turbo is being cooled..

I am still not convinced its overheating though, does 112 degress sound reasonable for a fully heated engine? now I think of it the sender is not from a mini, but surely the smith temp gauges are all the same?

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

i had an over heating problem with mine- it was a gauge/sender problem and went when i fitted a capilary gauge, the car now generally lives between 70-85 degC

As regards to my turbo cooling pipework, god knows if its right then, but it appears to work, you can see water flowing into the radiator, and has been like it for several thousand miles without a problem. When the temp of the tubo casing is 200 degrees+ i dont think it will make too much difference if its 60deg or 85 deg

Hi,
Mnie generally runs around 200-220degF. But I've only got an electric fan, I'd prefer it a little cooler, but hotter than Nics.
If you've got Vizzards book, have a look as it gives you best temps for peformance or econ and tells you the pitfalls.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!

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once upon a time it was a fact of life that the world was flat, then shock horror the world is round!! (just because others do something dont make it right. only questioning facts leads to new ideas and revised facts)

you can plumb your radiator and turbo any way you like but there is a reason why rover/leyland never put the heater return back into the top hose.

water will take the path of least resistance. the pump sucks on the bottom hose and normally some is against the resistance of the radiator and some is against the resistance of the heater. if you put the heater/turbo return into the top hose the pump has to suck through the rad then either straight from the head (no resistance) or from the head via the turbo (extra restriction).

imo if you dont run a heater then going into the top hose will work but with a reduced flow rate (once the thermostat has opened)and does not dump hot water back into the engine. if you run a heater in the same line then greatly reduced flow rate. also whilst the thermostat is shut the flow rate will be higher and the engine will not worm up fast as the rad will be cooling the turbo/heater/engine water, this slow worm up will increase wear on the engine and make for a cold drive in winter!

the alternative is to go from heater take off to turbo then heater then bottom hose. this allows the heater to cool the water before dumping it into the engine but also allows the heater to be used as an alternative cooling device. the only thing is the heater matrix needs to be free flowing (new)

Tel - Only just read this thread. Good work, manifold looks great.

Some good points there shed..

I have already dumped the heater!
I am in an area with pretty high summer temps and the car is a big boys toy that will not see the light of day come winter (when they chuck salt all over the place)
Actually, I have already moved the turbo return up to the top.. and it didnt make much difference!! but In my view its probably better that way esp given the high temps I will see over here.

One suggestion was to remove the stat, but I dont think thats a good idea for a road car as it means the temps are not controlled at all. I am still seeing the gauge rise at idle but even if I let it idle for 20 mins, nothing untoward happens, no boilovers, no gurgling and the engine seems pretty much Ok, I guess next is get an electric fan for idling, fortunately I thought ahead and got the 2core rad with the fan switch so it should be easy to wire that in.

Meanwhile I'm not going to worry about it for now. next thing is to sort out the mixture and advance curve... Think I'll start a new thread for that..

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Tomorrow is the big test, forcast is for high 90s and high humidity.

Its still running a bit hot... What I gained I have lost when refitting the bonnet. Good thing is its only at idle so hopefully the electric fan will cure that, also I am picking up some "water wetter" tomorrow, I hear good things about that.

I have a feeling its going to sprout some holes eventually!!

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Water wetter rocks. Before using it, be sure to drain all the old coolant. Refill with plain distilled water, water wetter, and only a few ounces of coolant for lubrication.

And for what it is worth, most of the modded Mini's I've known in the US hot climates seem to do the temp creep when sitting at idle.

61 Austin Seven; building a 1275 'over the clutch' turbo, R5 T2'd, custom intercooled, megajolt electrified, canyon carver

www.motorlust.com - The Online Magazine for Car Guys Like Us

Getting bac to the subject of manifolds,

I've got my flanges done (NIC.... NOOOOOO!)and have squished the tubes to resemble the square flange/exhaust ports:)

After running the car for just over a week now I thought I would just update on how its working..

Answer is fine! I have not had any problems, there are no ominous noises as it heats up or cools down and all seems well. However I think Ill end uo doing it again... Over the winter when the old mini's in hibernation I hope to start work on mark2.. I like the look of axels design which eliminates the angled cuts I had so much trouble with. I built it from the turbo out to the head flages, next time I'll do it the other way! Also Mini13's idea of shaping the pipe to conform to the flanges seems a good idea as well. If its mild steel want to also get it tigged up by a pro next time then send it off for a jethot coating to keep temps down. but maybe next time it will be stainless anyway...

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Well I'm impressed, i wonder does anyone know the true gains of a tubular manifold? I have ported etc the metro turbo one but i'm always tempted to fabricate something.

"Cars are a lifetime of pain"

I would say that tubular manifolds of this design would be worse than the standard metro one as they do not separate the outer cylinders from the inner ones as well as the Metro design which causes at the very least, poorer spool up time.
As for the section difference, I would the think that the Metro one is adequate for most power levels from this engine. There may be a few percent reduction in back pressure with a larger section but this would give small gains.