Fuel injected 'A' Series 998 with MS and sequential siamese code
Turbo Mini Forums

It's probably just me making a mess of the wiring.
I'll do all the necessary checks and changes tonight (If this snow stops) and hopefully get the engine back up and running.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

I never got to looking at the wiring issue this evening, but I did find a problem with my timing, which was due to me installing a damper type pulley with different timing marks to that of the pressed crank pulley that I removed.
Sorry about the picture quality.

Pressed crank pulley:




Dampered crank pulley:



There is a difference of 16 teeth, counting anti clockwise on the pictures above.
Here is the timing chain cover of the engine that the pulley came off of. Not sure what the engine would have originally come out of?
It’s a 1275 according to the engine number..





So from the 4 engines I had the pick of, I chose the one that was different.

While looking into the timing issue, I did find that having the hall sensor disconnected gives me the ability to use my stobe light, which I mentioned earlier in this thread interfered with the VR signal enough to stop sync with the megasquirt.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Haven't a clue what that timing chain cover and engine is from but the marker is certainly not in the normal place........

But at least you have an answer to one of your problems !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I think that pulley may be off an in-line engine. I also made a similar mistake wih a pulley with the timing marks towards the back - I think that one came from an All-aggro

Back on track...

Timing issues are (appear to be) sorted along with earthing problems.

With that my starting problems have gone aswell.

I made some logs today, but on getting home and reviewing them, my AFR and AFR2 were spot on, exactly the same, which seemed odd, so looking at it a bit more I have realised that I had not copied my custom.ini file to the new project I had created.
Just for confirmation, The custom.ini file just drops into the projectcfg folder??

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

I can't answer as I don't use TS for logging but you'll probably find the answer on the MS-Extra forums
http://www.msextra.com/forums/index.php
There is a section part way down specifically for TS.
I used that forum in the early days as there is a lot of info that can be found (although not especially on the siamese).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Thanks Rod, I think this is where I got the info first time

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.ph...tom.ini#p207410

I could not find it last night..

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Good.

And if it's the same Gerald O that posts on here occassionaly he's running the siamese code on a B series engine so probably why he asked the question !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Finally, after several months planning, building testing and frustration, I now have megasquirt installed and running.
I started the transfer from my test engine the the car last Saturday and ran for a few days on ignition only. I’ve now spent 3 days hard graft installing the fuelling and modifying the inlet manifold.
It’s not perfect, but as this is my daily drive, time has been tight.






Just a few pics of the install as it stands.
I have a lot of tidying and refinement to the install to do, but now its in, the rest should be easy...













There may be a lot of tuning to do, but it feels smoother accelerating and feels to have a bit more grunt low down.



Let the fun begin.!

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

3 days? Well done!!
Now time to tune in the injectors and you'll be well away.

Congratulations.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

Well done

Fantastic, you must be proper chuffed.

Well done, I told you that you would beat me to it.....

Which AFR is which for inners and outers ???

Looks like they are fine on low throttle opennings but deviate on WOT at the moment.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Thanks all.

AFRF(WB02) on the graph represents the outer cylinders.
I'm still not happy with fixed injection timing one, so more playing today.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

I think I've spotted my mystake. I have Fixed injection timing 1 set to 90degs.
That means its injecting 90 BTDC for no 1 cylinder. So its well inside of no 2 cylinder's injection window?? It should be set to -90deg, that takes me past number 2 cylinder inlet valve closing.
That explains the big differnce in AFR's between inners and outers. I think..

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

As expected, outers lean. Must be injection timing.

I did worry about the size injectors you were intending to use but, if I can read the plots right, it looks like a 3mS pulse width at 4k RPM so they are nowhere near an un-intentional merge.

Most likely timing 1 too late as you are obviously thinking, what are your figures at the moment ???
Also, are you just on single fixed figures or have you set up the tables yet ???
As it's right at low throttle/RPM and deviates higher, tables will be needed which is obviously one of the key points of the code.

Also it might be worth starting a new thread in the Injection specific part of the forum, if you start posting lots pof graphs, Tom might even give you your own section :)

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I went back to the 63Lbs/hr injectors. The 33Lbs/hr were possibly too small.
I have the dual fixed timing figures set at 90degs for fixed injection timing 1 and 0degs for fixed injection timing 2.
No timing tables as yet.

So, now that I can just jump in the car and test, I'm going to change them to -90deg for fixed injection timing 1 and 60deg for fixed injection timing 2, then go for a drive.
I'm hoping those figures should put the injection pulses well inside their respective inlet valve opening windows, without effecting their opposite cylinder and give me even AFR's at lower rev's.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

The smaller ones would have virtually doubled the pulsewidth and would have been very close to merging, even at symettrical timings.

I'm 99% certain you will need tables as the AFRs look fine at low RPM but deviate once the RPM (hence mass of, and speed down, the inlet runners increase).

It might be worth your while spending a bit of time setting up an excel spreadsheet, displayed as an excel graph, and dumping the data into that.

You can make the scales more uniform (and the same every time) and, if you have adobe you can pdf it and "attach" the file to your posts for easier viewing.

Keep it up though, it's good to see someone else with it now working.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Dont try -90 degrees. The code works out phasing of the cylinders. So if you set them both the same, they will actually fire 180 degrees apart.

I would suggest you need a single table for both injectors. Try 45 degrees at idle, going up to around 120 degrees at full chat.

EDIT: The average of the two AFR readings looks OK for now, so I would suggest leaving the VE tables alone for now and try and equalise the AFRs with just the timing.

Edited by Paul S on 13th Mar, 2010.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

very exciting ... again !

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Good work Graham, it makes me even more excited for when I finally get mine installed and running!

I wish I'd read these last few posts earlier. Half Tank of petrol later and no moving forward.
I'll now go and set a single table.

Paul, you suggest 45deg, so that will start 45deg BTDC?? Are you using mid-pulse or start of pulse?

I'll start a new thread in the Injection section with any results I get.

Oh, by the way, I had to get rescued from The M4 motorway bridge earlier. The fuel gauge said half full but the tank disagreed.
Is there a difference between the MPI fuel level sender and that of the std 7.5 gallon tank? I just filled up and the gauge still only says half full.
Got a gallon in a can now.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Graham,

The need for a single table is historical.

In the early version of the code, when the two pulses got too close together (either becuase of increased fuelling or the timing differences) there was a glitch when they merged into one so some pulses were missed.

Although Jean corrected this, there is a fundamental principle that you should never let the two pulses get close to each other as open/close times of the injectors distort the actual fuel going in.

So Jean added the single pulse table option in case the two pulses were close to merging.

Looking at your injector sizes and produced pulsewidth, there is little to no chance of them merging so, in my PERSONAL opinion, there is no need to go for single pulse in your case.

But Paul has proven single pulse to work and I have yet to show that dual pulse also works if the injectors are big enough.

So, whichever way you go, the more data the better. !!!

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???