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 8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
26th Feb, 2007 at 08:42:28pm
On 26th of Feb, 2007 at 08:08pm robert said:
3.4mm and 4.3 mm are the two different tip heights for the 55 trim 56mm wheel 4.1 and 3mm are the tip heights for the 55 trim 52mm gt17 wheel , i think it may be that these dimensions are going to affect the characteristics of the maps , i know that the wheel in mine is the 4.1mm but unless we know the tip hieght for the 56 mm wheel map can they really be compared like that axel , it may be the map your looking at is the 3.4mm ..what do you think ? if you look back at the interpolation that fab did a few pages back , i think it ties in with your calcs though . i think that range wise its going to be good whatever , its just above 20 psi where the question of whether its a high boost design comes into it , i found the fact that its used on the 18psi and up diesel vans as stock encouraging the idea that it may work well over 20 psi ,the proof will be in the trying ! regards robert. I'm guessing but I doubt that the tip height will change significantly. I used to work for a large pump manufacturer. If we wanted a bespoke pump for a specific job, say a large power station cooling water pump, we would take the nearest, best pump that we had previously made and scale it to meet the duty. We used the rules I used above. I know that water and air are totally different, but the same rules apply. The only thing that may change is the air may compress through the impeller, but it should only compress as it slows down in the volute. What I'm getting at is that Garrett would take the same approach. If they had a good 55 trim design at 56mm dia, they would not change it significantly for 52mm dia. I think that it is unliley that the tip height on the 56mm wheel will be smaller. The only reason to reduce the tip height would be to reduce the flow, but they could do that more efficiently with a higher trim. EDIT: What I am trying to say is that if the 2056 56mm map was 3.5mm tips, then the 1752 at 4.1mm tip would flow considerably more than the 2056. However, that is unlikley as Saab used it on the LPT up to 185hp and used a Mitsui TD04 for the 235hp model. Edited by Paul S on 26th Feb, 2007. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
27th Feb, 2007 at 10:38:18am
Found this showing the performance of the 2056 at higher speeds.
Edited by Paul S on 27th Feb, 2007. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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 6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
27th Feb, 2007 at 11:03:26am
yes thats the map a few pages ago with the next one down overlapping it ,and then a guess overlaid , it does look good ,hence this thread ! incidentally that looks viable to 37 psi boost !!6:1 cr and no wastegate anyone ? theres another map that was encouraging ill see if i can find it ,its seems ages ago this was researched .
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
27th Feb, 2007 at 11:09:46am
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
27th Feb, 2007 at 11:21:11am
On 27th of Feb, 2007 at 11:09am robert said:
heres an intersting one that pete put up a few pages back , its a 55 trim 56 wheel ,maybe this is the smaller tip height ,this would be encouraging . http://f10.putfile.com/main/7/20606315373.jpg That's a generic map out of the old Garrett catalogue. These later maps I've posted seem to be a bit more specific and detailed. Anyhow, all credit to you robert for identifying the potential. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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 12307 Posts Member #: 565 Carlos Fandango Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex |
27th Feb, 2007 at 11:24:41am
That does look good,
On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged... Joe, do you have a photo of your tool? http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1 https://joe1977.imgbb.com/ |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
27th Feb, 2007 at 11:46:09am
On 27th of Feb, 2007 at 11:21am Axel said:
On 27th of Feb, 2007 at 11:09am robert said:
heres an intersting one that pete put up a few pages back , its a 55 trim 56 wheel ,maybe this is the smaller tip height ,this would be encouraging . http://f10.putfile.com/main/7/20606315373.jpg That's a generic map out of the old Garrett catalogue. These later maps I've posted seem to be a bit more specific and detailed. Anyhow, all credit to you robert for identifying the potential. thanks axel , yes its a garret catalog one ,but prob as accurate,if less detailed.. my point was that , if as we know there are two 55 trim 56mm wheels , and the only difference we know of is that the tip height is either 3.4 or 4.3 mm , then, now we have two different maps ,both calling themselves a 55 trim , then we could safely say (perhaps) ,one of the maps is a 4.3 ,and one of them is a 3.4 ,.. so then if we say hmmm the 4.3mm tip is the higher flowing map ,and we know the gt17 has the high flow wider blade tip .that will then support which map to compare the 17 to . which would be the map that flows most air out of the 2 gt2056 maps . Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
28th Feb, 2007 at 10:36:38am
something i dont understand axel
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
28th Feb, 2007 at 10:45:48am
The pressure generated by the compressor is proportional to the tip velocity of the wheel. Hence for a smaller wheel, you get a lower pressure.
Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
28th Feb, 2007 at 05:51:43pm
so if the speed scales UP then it could attain parity with the 56.? Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
28th Feb, 2007 at 06:22:41pm
On 28th of Feb, 2007 at 05:51pm robert said:
so if the speed scales UP then it could attain parity with the 56.? Yep, but I guess there are limits to the speed. Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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 1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
28th Feb, 2007 at 07:12:44pm
though you would like to know that old catalog had some errors, showing some 52mm maps in place of 56 one ...
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
28th Feb, 2007 at 09:54:07pm
yes fab i spotted that as well , i particularly like the ones where the trim on the graph is 72 ,and on the spec sheet is 60 !! lol
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
1st Mar, 2007 at 04:07:26am
yes and these are three or four like this , mainly 2056/2052 60 trim and 2259 ..
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
1st Mar, 2007 at 07:53:21am
On 1st of Mar, 2007 at 04:07am fab said:
when you look at tip height, it's in relation with the hole diameter in the hsg, a wider hole meaning a larger a/r, need a larger talon to make the transition from wheel to hsg. ok that seems fair , but then fab , if it were that the radius of the scroll was changed along with the hole size ,,,then the a/r could remain the same ,whatever the tip height ? the larger tip give a wider map, the smaller tip give an higher map oh dear ,,, if that is definitely true ,then this 55 trim gt17 may not be the high pressure turbo we hope or at all similar to the 55 trim 56mm wheel we were comparing it to! about efficiency, turbine doesn't see comp eff, it does see pressure and speed,then the compressor transform it in flow or heat yes again i would agree with you there my point was that the turbine needs a certain amount of torque place upon it by the incoming gases ,and this amount of torque needed to achieve a required boost ,is relative to the turbine eff ,and also the comp eff. par example ,if the comp was 100% eff(fantasy) then the turbine would have to do less work to achieve a set boost ,so although its eff may have dropped ,the total package may have gained . bit like a see saw . great to theorize about this stuff fab , but as you know ,in the real world we just have to strap it on there and wind it up !!  
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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1497 Posts Member #: 100 Parisien Turbo Expert Paris\' suburb |
1st Mar, 2007 at 08:55:28am
robert , rereading I'm curious that your wheel is in a 0.53a/r, does it have straight blades or curved ones?
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
1st Mar, 2007 at 01:00:30pm
i think i put a picture down the inlet of the turbo a few pages back , they seem to be a fair bit more curved than the t series for sure
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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8604 Posts Member #: 573 Formerly Axel Podland |
1st Mar, 2007 at 03:42:41pm
Pictures of the GT1752:
Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
15th Apr, 2007 at 02:49:01pm
tested the engine at amd the other day ,running 1700lb on the inertia setting on the sun ram 12 rr( which does affect the power reading ,lower weight the higher the power ,it goes down to 550 pounds )
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
15th Apr, 2007 at 02:50:50pm
oops forgot to say thats on 9.5 psi boost ,,it had 122 on 5.5 psi . Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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 9313 Posts Member #: 59 First mini turbo to get in the 12's & site perv Herefordshire |
15th Apr, 2007 at 03:05:17pm
Good Work!!
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 9258 Posts Member #: 123 Post Whore Betwix Harrogate and York |
15th Apr, 2007 at 07:14:41pm
That's impressive on less than 10psi.
Fastest 998 mini in the world? 13.05 1/4 mile 106mph
On 2nd Jan, 2013 fastcarl said:
the design shows a distinct lack of imagination, talk about starting off with a clean sheet of paper, then not bothering to fucking draw on it,lol On 20th Apr, 2012 Paul S said:
I'm mainly concerned about swirl in the runners caused by the tangential entry. |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
15th Apr, 2007 at 08:09:39pm
On 15th of Apr, 2007 at 03:05pm Nic said:
Good Work!! What else had changed since your last bhp figure? Time for a diet isnt it? thanks nic , um no changes to the engine other than 4 psi more boost and the new clutch ,its just getting new adjustable on the caR BOTtOM ARMS ,TEiBARS ,AND THE VENTEd DISCS AND 4 POTS ,oops then itll be diet time,andyou know what that means ...getin carbony wiv it !!lol 
Edited by robert on 15th Apr, 2007. Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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6744 Posts Member #: 828 Post Whore uranus |
15th Apr, 2007 at 08:17:22pm
On 15th of Apr, 2007 at 07:14pm wil_h said:
That's impressive on less than 10psi. I'd love to see the graph. thanks will here you go i feel if i could have made it run at 12 to 1 afr ,and a bit more timing adjustment i could have hit 150 , also the v springs were starting to bounce at 6600 and it wasnt quite at peak power . 
Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM |
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 4559 Posts Member #: 786 Post Whore Bermingum |
15th Apr, 2007 at 08:33:43pm
Hi,
VEMs Authorised Installer / Re-seller. K head kits now available!
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