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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 09:37:34am

Hi guys,

Not a very happy chappy, took the turbo out for a blast last night (first time since the recent RR setup), and gave its first session of hard driving. However i've come across a very annoying problem.

I can acclerate hard in 2nd gear, upto 6k....change into 3rd and continue the full acceleration, then at about 4500 revs the engine just dies suddenly. It doesn't cut out, it just gives pop from the exhaust and completely stops accleration.

Now, it must be fuel starvation that is causing this, but surely this would hacve shown up on the roling road last week?

Is my pump not keeping the float chamber level up?


Tim

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




wil_h

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Betwix Harrogate and York

17th Mar, 2007 at 10:42:47am

I had a similar experience, an it was the fuelpump not pumping enough fuel per minute.

it needs to pump at least 1 litre per minute

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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 11:30:32am

How did you cure the problem?

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




iain
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Sold the turbo and seeing what the C20XE can do!

Near Lincoln

17th Mar, 2007 at 11:35:58am

Me too, new fuel pump sorted it.

Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 11:44:22am

Hmm...the pump is relatively new, only replaced it about 5000 miles ago.

However, it could be faulty I suppose?

Or I may have a slightly clogged fuel line, restrciting flow?



89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




JT

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17th Mar, 2007 at 05:38:23pm

wouldnt it effect it in all gears if it was fuel starvation??

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slater

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Suffolk / Birmingham

17th Mar, 2007 at 06:04:02pm

What sized lines have you got?


Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 06:15:26pm

On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 05:38pm josh_tacon said:
wouldnt it effect it in all gears if it was fuel starvation??



My thoughts were that if the fuel pump wasn't quite keeping up with the rate at which the fuel was being drawn from the float chamber, then eventually under prelonged acceleration there would come a point when the float chamber is empty?


On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 06:04pm slater said:
What sized lines have you got?



Standard turbo lines, they've not been touched since the car was new 18 years ago.

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




miniminor63

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17th Mar, 2007 at 06:39:05pm

Could it be that the carb is full of crap? maybe take a look to see if anything is blocking fuel flow inside it?

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 06:48:40pm

Just stripped and rebuilt the carb last weekend, so its defo not that.

And I doubt the fuel lines are blocked as i could give the car hell with 130BHP and it fuelled fine...

Its with 160BHP that i'm now struggling for fuel, so i suspect the pump isn't keeping up.

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




gutted

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Derby

17th Mar, 2007 at 06:51:04pm

Tim,

If it was fuel starvation, I'd guess (?) that the float chamber would empty out well before you got to 6k from in 2nd. Could it be ignition timing that's giving you grief? I always say this in similar situations only because I had very similar experiences which eventually turned out to be the vacuum advance unit on the dizzy being slightly loose. Not saying yours is necessarily loose, just wondering if it's an electrics thing rather than fuelling?

Dan.

Edited by gutted on 17th Mar, 2007.

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Bat

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Bermingum

17th Mar, 2007 at 06:53:43pm

Hi,
It might be that 130 Bananas is about the limit for the standard pump, after all it's well above standard!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 07:40:47pm




On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 06:51pm gutted said:
Tim,

If it was fuel starvation, I'd guess (?) that the float chamber would empty out well before you got to 6k from in 2nd. Could it be ignition timing that's giving you grief?

Dan.


I'd like to think its not timing related, as its just been rolling roaded and set up last monday!

I'm thinking theres a small difference between the pump supply rate, and the rate at which the fuel is leaving the float chamber. Hence it takes 15/20secs of constant full acceleration before the float becomes empty?


89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




Dangerous

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Swindon

17th Mar, 2007 at 08:16:46pm

Std metro supply pipe is only 1/4" o/d,a 1/4" i/d pipe will only supply fuel for 250 HP


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metroturbo

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North Yorkshire

17th Mar, 2007 at 08:40:43pm

Do you still have the ballast resistor in the supply circuit for the pump? (it is the white thing under the battery.) If so, it might be worth linking it out to get the pump up to full flow rate and see if that helps.

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 08:55:24pm




On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 08:40pm metroturbo said:
Do you still have the ballast resistor in the supply circuit for the pump? (it is the white thing under the battery.) If so, it might be worth linking it out to get the pump up to full flow rate and see if that helps.


Its still got the ballast resistor in place at the moment, is it safe to link it out?

Are there any negative side effects to be careful of if I link it out?

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




Bat

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Bermingum

17th Mar, 2007 at 08:57:16pm

Hi,
That's a good point. Only Rover would reduce the power to a fuel pump!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 08:57:18pm




On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 08:16pm Dangerous said:
Std metro supply pipe is only 1/4" o/d,a 1/4" i/d pipe will only supply fuel for 250 HP


So are we saying the fuel lines need replacing with 1/4" i/d piping?



89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




Dangerous

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17th Mar, 2007 at 09:10:38pm

Well a 1/4" i/d pipe will have a cross section of pie x 3 squared =28 sqare mm

so if the i/d of the metro pipe is 4 mm then that will be 12 square mm

if 28(1/4 i/d) is good for 250 bhp, then 12(4mm i/d) will only do about 120 bhp

Easiest way would be plumb the return pipe for the flow and put a bigger return pipe on.


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Bat

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Bermingum

17th Mar, 2007 at 09:16:04pm

Hi,
I've got no idea why the ballast resistor is there in the first place? It's a 12v pump so I don't understand why they don't supply it with 12v in the first place?
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

17th Mar, 2007 at 09:23:10pm




On 17th of Mar, 2007 at 09:10pm Dangerous said:
Well a 1/4" i/d pipe will have a cross section of pie x 3 squared =28 sqare mm

so if the i/d of the metro pipe is 4 mm then that will be 12 square mm

if 28(1/4 i/d) is good for 250 bhp, then 12(4mm i/d) will only do about 120 bhp

Easiest way would be plumb the return pipe for the flow and put a bigger return pipe on.


I see....So looks like I have to get busy with my fuel lines :(

Thats going to be a b*stard of a job to do.

How would I go about connecting up the larger bore lines to the fuel pump etc?

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




Bat

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Bermingum

17th Mar, 2007 at 09:31:25pm

Hi,
I'd bypass the ballast resistor first, that's the easier job of the two *wink*
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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turbodave16v
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SouthPark, Colorado

18th Mar, 2007 at 01:03:43pm

As regards the fuelline - I think you'll be fine. You just need a full 12V (or a tickle more) voltage to the pump.

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Metro Turbo

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Sunny Blackpool

18th Mar, 2007 at 03:04:11pm

PROBLEM SORTED!!

Linked out the ballast resistor and taken it to an airfield for private testing (cough cough)

Tested it upto 120mph before it looked like the bonnet was going to fly off!

Chuffed to bits, no signs of fuel starvation now!

Thanks for info guys, thats made my weekend now thats sorted :)

Tim

89' Metro Turbo
157 BHP , 170 lb ft @ 15psi .... So far....
Mikeanics Rolling Road
WINNER OF RETRO CARS SHOW BEST 80's MODIFIED CAR




BENROSS

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Mitsi Evo 7, 911, Cossie. & all the chavs ...... won no problem

18th Mar, 2007 at 03:08:32pm

had the same problem and know many peeps who has been there

the HIF range of carbs struggle with fuel supply delivery been out stripped in the float bowl at around these power figures

the answer here is to remove the carb needle valve (the fuel jet)

and drill this out carefull to 2.9mm no bigger or smaller 2.9mm

then seat the valve in using very fine lapping past, taking any! micro scratches out of the seat

Mr Avonbar can..... supply you with a modded one for around £11 BUT..... *frown*
their postage fees leave somewhat to be disired *frown*

my moneys on this if all else checks out *wink*

edit: The fuel pump from the mg metros are rated at fuel flow rates at a shade ove 500BHP

in good order

Edited by BENROSS on 18th Mar, 2007.





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