twin plate clutch setup
Turbo Mini Forums

found this on a site while looking at bmw heads thought it might be of some intrest.

looks extremly easy to setup and very similar to my mates triple plate setup on his 700hp skyline.

twin plate = more surface area = less clamping load required for equal amount of torque it can handle compared to a single plate which will require more clamping load to make up for its smaller surface area ? so how much better would this be with the same pressure plate but single clutch plate?









rest here: http://www.minimod.info/index.html

Edited by benjamin on 30th Dec, 2007.

1152cc turboed mini clubman, most powerful 1.1L a-series?

http://boostmini.justboard.net/

Hi,
This has already been discussed at length, but I don't think it got off the "drawing board" as there was too much interia in the double plate setup.
Instead there was Roberts double spring setup, which I believe other members have used too?
Good luck with it, you may prove people wrong!
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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oh dont worry should have search better found the thread

1152cc turboed mini clubman, most powerful 1.1L a-series?

http://boostmini.justboard.net/

my concern was with its overall thickness of the setup, being that it may foul the rear of the clutch housing but now ive looked closer it appears that some of the thickness has been recessed into the flywheel and revelant adjustments to preload allowed for,
if i or tom ever have problems i may give one a go, but never had the need thus far,


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Some of the carbon offerings would sort the inertia issue.

And the types that use a splined hub over which the carbon discs fit, instead of a complete hub/friction carrier, would also allow thinner items to be used, reducing overall thickness.

I posted a pic of such a setup a while back made by Quartermaster. Very nice they are too.
Although obviously such a setup will cost.

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Thats not a bad looking clutch at all really -paddle plates would help with the inertia as well, it looks like this flywheel/backplate wasn't excessively lightened either.

JK

If Carling made Mini engines
it would probably be like this one!

i would say those plates will be lighter than the AP paddle, remember its got a thicker disk then theres the steel backing on the paddles,

using the clutch disk as used in crossflows and pintos would be the way to go, i use these disks and are about 25% lighter than the AP paddle, and probably 50% lighter than those hidious Alcon 5 paddle abominations .


carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Hi all, I am delighted to have come across some pics of my twin plate clutch on this site. Truly this is the BEST mod on any performance mini. You turbo people must know the clutch is the biggest problem in powerful minis, this clutch is so road friendly, halving pedal pressure for the same spring used. As a bonus flywheel, crank fretting is significantly reduced and clutch judder is eradicated. I guess this is due to a softer take up. I made one for my supercharged mini in the 70ies and would never go back and can't for the life of me understand why others haven’t done it. Best of all it's easy to do just modifying the standard flywheel and back plate. Haven’t you wondered why the primary gear is so long, it's so you can fit 2 plates on it. Get to it, any questions ask.

Pmed.

1/4 Mile 14.3secs 96Mph Terminal 10psi of boost.


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Hello ,and welcome,
unless i'm missing something blindingly obvious [ which i don't think i am] , and unless youv'e altered either the pedal length or slave cly size , how can you half the pedal pressure by adding another plate using the same pring,??
unless youv'e seriously reduced the proload clamping force of the spring.

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Looks heavy. I'd use a double grey with a normalish plate coupled with an idea I had. Put a second slave with a roller taper on the end of the pulley end of the crank. Press the pedal and the forces are counteracted resulting in almost zero thrust wear. Heavy pedal but hey, bad manners are a part of tuning.

I would have thought that having a huge mass on the end of the primary gear would impose huge inertial forces on the synchros or dogs or whatever. It looks heavy and my bet is that it is heavy. I'd rather have a sore foot rather than a worn box.

Well done for building it though!

What does it feel like......really?

Bugger off, I'm getting there.

Double the plate inertia is never going to be good for synchros... I've said this many times over.

It may not be good for them, but is that to say you wont be able to shift smoothly with them ?
surely a clutch that grips and drives smoothly, is worth it ?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

Syncros or thrust bearings, something is going to wear.

Half the solution is in Carls oil fed thrust bearing but that still needs some redesign to get its full potential.

yes jay, you'd need an identical arm on the pulley end. an excellent theory though and could work. is a servo assisted clutch possible?

edit,

Edited by fastcarl on 31st Jan, 2008.

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

you'd need either a larger master cylinder, or move the clutch pedal twice as far as with a single cylinder aswell

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE

Hi all,Fast Carl , an error there on my part,I should have said half the pedal pressure for the same clamping force. Or in other words double the clamping force for the same spring usage. The wave washers can be taken out of one or both of the clutch plates so the standard .700 bore marster cyl can be used or a.750 brake cyl can be used to get more travel. Doing this, it feels like a standed clutch as there's double the takeup surface area. adding one plate to the totall gear drivetrain weight is insignificant as is any extra Inertia it may have. think how the primary gear runs down and through all the gears and an extra plate is nothing. Yes the flywheel is going to be heavier by a plate and a center plate but a LOT lighter than stock.
Mark.

I think what he means, is the drag on the drops, will significantly reduce the friction discs rotating speed, and hence make synchro life easier ?

9.85 @ 145mph
202mph standing mile
speed didn't kill me, but taxation probably will

That will help in an upshift - they're basically acting like a brake - but in a downshift, that'd be worse for the synchros as they'd have to increase the friction disc speed, and accelerate the drop gears, which have this 'extra' drag...

Downshifts are always very bad.

wouldnt double 'de' clutching solve this?

"Turbo's make torque, and torque makes fun"

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