Inertia starter motor to pre-engaged, Wiring help!!!
Turbo Mini Forums

Hello,
This question has probably been asked a bunch of times already, but I couldn't find much on the search.

I'm have replaced my 1982 998cc engine with an 1275cc Mg metro engine.
The 998cc uses an inertia starter motor with those small external-type solenoids on the inner wing.

My metro engine has a is pre-engaged starter motor.

Can anyone advise me on where wires need to go, I don't know much about wiring. and if anyone has any pictures to show will b great.
Thanks

Any help will be appreciated.

put the big cable from the battery onto the lug on the starter motor, then your small ignition wire from the key gos onto the smaller teminal on the starter, meaning there is always the battery supply connected and the ignition when the key is turned engeges the solenoid

Hi,
You'll also need to extend the brown wire from the old solenoid to the main cable bolt on the new starter.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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An easy way to do it is to move both thick wires currently going to the solenoid on the inner wing to the same terminal on the solenoid. This provides the main feed to the new starter and also means the loom is still being fed. Then all you need to do is disconnect the red/white wire from the inner wing solenoid, and extend this to reach the starter small terminal. Doing it this way means if you ever want to swap back to inertia starter its an easy job.

Hi
Thanks for your help.
Can someone show me which wire please , as they are all brown and I dont know which one is coming from the ignition.
Thanks

All the brown wires connect together, its the white/red that actually energises the solenoid or pre engagement

Toms Idea seems the simplest, put all the brown wires back onto the lower terminal of the solenoid and add another thick wire from the SAME terminal to feed the Starter (on the nut connection). then extend the red/white wire to energise the starter (on the BIG spade connection)

Terry

Edited by Turbo Tel on 2nd Apr, 2008.

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Using the red/white wire to power the (pre-engaged) solenoid is a bad idea...
The pre-engaged solenoid draws a lot more current than the original wing solenoid (because it is bigger as it has to move gears inside the starter motor).
Thus the contacts inside the ignition barrel will overheat and eventually fail.
Later Minis that had the pre-engaged starter had an additional relay that provided the feed to the pre-engaged solenoid so as not to overload the ignition switch barrel.
Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Edited by Turbo Tel on 2nd Apr, 2008.

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

It's also worth adding that for anyone who chooses to use the red/white to feed the bigger pre-engaged solenoid direct, if you have a ballast ignition system (using the additional tag on the wing solenoid, to provide the higher coil starting voltage) this would also need to be swapped to the auxiliary tag on the pre-engaged starter solenoid or you would have poor cold weather starting.

Edited by Rod S on 2nd Apr, 2008.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

If you don't want to believe me, look at haynes (light blue) page 337 (and notes on page 338).
For a pre-engaged starter, red/white from ignition switch (16) goes to "starter relay" (15) taking main power (brown) via brown/red to the pre-engaged starter solenoid (17).
Haynes is often wrong, but in this case they are correct....
Use a straight red/white connection to a pre-engaged starter at your peril.... the standard ignition switch/barrel will not carry the current... for long....

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Sorry Rod Im not to good at this wiring.
Can you show me your way please by editing the pictures the way I have done.

This is the last thing to do on the mini before a MOT is done, I left it till the end as I dont know much about wiring and needed help to do it.

Please help !

Hi,
Connect 5 as it was, back on the solenoid.
Then connect a thickish wire to B and run that to the large spade on the starter motor.
The rest as you have it listed above
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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On 2nd Apr, 2008 Bat said:
Hi,
Connect 5 as it was, back on the solenoid.
Then connect a thickish wire to B and run that to the large spade on the starter motor.
The rest as you have it listed above
Cheers,
Gavin :)

Edited by Turbo Tel on 3rd Apr, 2008.

website:- http://www.terryhunt.co.uk

Hi,
Post up a pic of how you've got it now and we'll take a look :)
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Hi Gavin
Sorry I dont have any pictures but I fitted it the way I was told.

1,2,3,4 fitted to terminal A, and a thick cable from A to the new starter.

A new cable from terminal B to the big spade connector on the starter.
5 was connected back to C.

But it didnt work this way, so I removed 5 from C and placed it on B and it started. Is this safe ?
Thanks

At first it sounded like your wing solenoid isn't working....

BUT, looking closer at your photo, I think the wing solenoid is physically broken, ie, there is a tag missing.....

USUALLY, the operating coil tag (where the red/white should connect) is at the top right of your photo (opposite your "C") and is a male tag. The one you have marked "C" and is female in your photo so is normally the ballast start bypass connector.

So the "instructions" are still right but the "C" you show is not "C"

So look dead opposite the tag you have as "C" and see if there is a rivet (or anything else) that looks as if it might have once had a male tag in that position.

Running "5" (ie, the red/white) direct to the pre-engaged solenoid will work... for a while... just look at the tag size on the pre-engaged starter compared to the tag on the end of your red/white cable. The current taken by the pre-engaged solenoid is much higher than your ignition switch contacts were designed for.

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Right, look at this.
Standard wing solenoid with the extra (female) tag for ballast start.
All battery and power cables on big right lug.
Power to starter from big left lug.
Solenoid operating (red/white) from ignition switch to small tag on top.

THIS IS THE ONE I CAN'T SEE IN YOUR PHOTO

Bottom small female tag is bypass to ballast coil.

If you connect red/white there to the bottom female tag it will do... nothing..

The basic way of using the standard wing solenoid as a relay for the higher current pre-engaged starter is to have everything as in my photo but move the big starter cable over from the left lug and add it on top of the big battery cable on the right lug and then run a medium sized wire from the left lug down to the large lucas tag on the back of the pre-engaged starter.

Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi Rod
So I need a new solenoid ?
These are the ones I have seen on eBay. Which one will I need ?

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Right,
FIRST make sure my thoughts are right, ie, you have a broken/missing tag from your solenoid.
The important question is whether you have a broken/missing tag from your own solenoid.
The two big lugs and associated tags are obvious on any application (battery in and out to the rest of the car on one lug and starter motor only on the other lug).
The two (or one) smaller Lucas tags simply say if it is a three or four terminal solenoid.
There has to be one tag, to energise the solenoid coil, but the later ones had the "fourth" tag to provide the ballast coil bypass supply.
If you have ballast ignition you need the one on the left (two posts,two tags).
If you have standard (early) ignition you only need the one on the right (two posts, one tag).
Personally I would always buy the one with the extra tag even if I wasn't going to use it, just in case I wanted ballast ignition in the future. But then you need to make sure you know which tag energises the solenoid and which is the extra ballast out connector.
Rod.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Hi,
If you do need a solenoid, I've got a New Old Stock Lucas one here.
Drop me a PM if you're interested. It's posted in the for sale section too.
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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