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Home > MS Trials & Testing > Trials and testing Will van Gemert

Paul S

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Odd that you did not see any change in the AFR spread.

The only difference to my setup is that you still have the "Number of Timing Values" set to "Dual Table".

Whilst it seems to be changing the timing, with such small pulse widths, I would expect the variation in AFRs to be significant.

EDIT: Also, it looks from the log that you are not switching the ECU through the ignition switch as it kept logging whilst you switched it on and off.

Now, if you set it to hybrid mode without re-booting the ECU, then the changes would not have been effective.

Edited by Paul S on 14th Apr, 2011.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


gemertw

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Paul,

After changing to hybrid I did reboot the cpu. Running in hybrid mode showed the timing values of the inners to stay zero the outers changed as set.
I will connect my scoop Saturday to see what's actually happening with the injection pulse timing.


gemertw

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I have a problem that I can’t seem to solve been working on it for three hours with no success. Last Wednesday everything worked normal and I was getting somewhere. When I started the engine today with the only change that I switched to single tables when running in hybrid mode the problem started. Whatever I do I always end up with the inners running very lean. I loaded old tunes that worked fine switched from hybrid to dual pulses back switched to the small injectors and back and tried four saved msq files of which I am sure they worked I keep ending up with the same thing, 1-4 running very lean. I moved the injection timing all over the place nothing worked. Does any body have a clue? I have attached the last msq I tested


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jbelanger

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Your WBO2 sensor is likely not reading correctly either because of some configuration or an air leak. Or you are getting misfires on the inner cylinders which will read as lean.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/


Paul S

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Sounds like a communications issue between TS and the ECU. It's as though the changes are not getting burnt.

Do you have a JimStim to test the ECU with?

Does the USB adaptor seem to be working OK?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


gemertw

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Paul,
The usb seems to be ok. I can make logfiles and all gauges are updating in TS. When I change a timing value the changed value is also presented on the gauges does that not mean that changes do get burnt?


Paul S

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Yes, must be communicating OK.

Do the inners go very lean, just when you make the change to hybrid mode or are they running lean all the time?

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


gemertw

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Jean,
The engine is running bad it sounds as if it gets way to much fuel, All cylinders however seem to be working. Could perhaps be misfires but do'nt think so because when I rase the fuel to twice the amount at wich the inners run correctly the outers wil get to normal AFR's but then the inners are verry verry rich!


gemertw

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I,ve got the same problem whatever settings I use. When I set req-fuel to a value so that the inners run at a normal AFR the outers will be very lean. If I then double the amount of req-fuel then the outers run at normal afr's and the inners run very rich!

On 16th Apr, 2011 Paul S said:
Yes, must be communicating OK.

Do the inners go very lean, just when you make the change to hybrid mode or are they running lean all the time?


Paul S

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In hybrid mode, the injection timing needs to be very precise, particularly with your very low pulse widths.

Try 0 degrees, the outers should run rich. Then try 180 degrees and the inners should run rich.

You should get some sort of balance around 90 degrees, but that depends on your injector spray pattern.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


jbelanger

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But the single pulse activation RPM is set to 8000RPM in that last msq. It will never be in single pulse mode.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/


gemertw

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Have to go to a family party (girlfriend is calling load now) will do further testing tommorow.


gemertw

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As I said I tested al my previous settings this onewas with dual pulse and no hybrid. Problem however stays the same whatever I do

On 16th Apr, 2011 jbelanger said:
But the single pulse activation RPM is set to 8000RPM in that last msq. It will never be in single pulse mode.

Jean


jbelanger

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The problem is that we don't see "whatever you do" so we can't say if you have a configuration error or if you're even updating the correct table if you only present one msq that doesn't activate the single pulse mode and say that you can't tune it.

Maybe Paul can see what you're doing since he certainly has more experience in tuning this mode.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/


Rod S

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Will,

I've looked too and what Jean says is exactly right, in the msq you posted hybrid mode is set at 8k RPM and above only.

Don't give up but what I have learnt the hard way is that some of the settings we need to use in the MS2-Extra (siamese) code are not allways obvious and can cause a lot of frustration understanding them.

But enjoy your family party tonight and post again tomorrow..

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


robert

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nice one rod .

Bicester scramble ,Medusa enjoyed the trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-7I7-nA19U


Paul S

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On 16th Apr, 2011 gemertw said:
I have a problem that I can’t seem to solve been working on it for three hours with no success. Last Wednesday everything worked normal and I was getting somewhere. When I started the engine today with the only change that I switched to single tables when running in hybrid mode the problem started. Whatever I do I always end up with the

.......inners running very lean........

I loaded old tunes that worked fine switched from hybrid to dual pulses back switched to the small injectors and back and tried four saved msq files of which I am sure they worked I keep ending up with the same thing,

.......1-4 running very lean......

I moved the injection timing all over the place nothing worked. Does any body have a clue? I have attached the last msq I tested


Can you please clarify if it is the inners or the outers. If you have managed both, then it is a matter of refining the timing.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


gemertw

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Paul,

Sorry for the confusing post, it are the inners that run rich and the outers that run lean, no matter what I do, I tried returning to all setups that I know worked ok previously but ended up with the same problem.
I am running the alpha 3.03y version at the moment. I am now first going to update to the 3.1.1 version and will then start again to see if reloading changes anything

On 16th Apr, 2011 Paul S said:

On 16th Apr, 2011 gemertw said:
I have a problem that I can’t seem to solve been working on it for three hours with no success. Last Wednesday everything worked normal and I was getting somewhere. When I started the engine today with the only change that I switched to single tables when running in hybrid mode the problem started. Whatever I do I always end up with the

.......inners running very lean........

I loaded old tunes that worked fine switched from hybrid to dual pulses back switched to the small injectors and back and tried four saved msq files of which I am sure they worked I keep ending up with the same thing,

.......1-4 running very lean......

I moved the injection timing all over the place nothing worked. Does any body have a clue? I have attached the last msq I tested


Can you please clarify if it is the inners or the outers. If you have managed both, then it is a matter of refining the timing.


gemertw

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After day’s of testing and checking almost everything that can be checked I was getting quit desperate! This evening I started checking the complete engine because I was done checking the MS. After having checked, valve timing, valve opening, compression ratios and much more I found nothing wrong and started the engine again expecting to see the same problem to return but surprise surprise now the inners were running lean and the outers rich! After swapping over the sparkplugs again (I had these removed for compression testing and had put them back in random order) the inners were running rich again and the outers lean. It’s to late to get new spark plugs today and I do not have a spare set to confirm that its just a faulty sparkplug but I am confident that the problem will be solved tomorrow. I am using Denso Iridium IW22 sparkplugs for the first time in this engine does anybody have any experience on these? I am now switching back to NGK BP7ES.
Sometimes you just overlook the simple things!
*blush*


Paul S

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Oh well, at least you are making progress.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


robert

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dont you need some resistor ngk's for that will?

Bicester scramble ,Medusa enjoyed the trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-7I7-nA19U


Rod S

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Will, If it was a misfire skewing the AFR readings it might be worth checking your charge/dwell times on the MS2.

Robert, I thought the general rule was either resisitive plugs or resistive leads but not both (not sure what leads Will has though).

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Paul S

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I'm now using NGK Iridium plugs with the LS2 coils.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/spar...s/iridiumix.asp

Seemed like a good idea, but unsure that I can feel any benefit. It was running pretty well anyway.

They do a BPR7EIX.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


robert

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uranus




On 20th Apr, 2011 Rod S said:
Will, If it was a misfire skewing the AFR readings it might be worth checking your charge/dwell times on the MS2.

Robert, I thought the general rule was either resisitive plugs or resistive leads but not both (not sure what leads Will has though).


i tend to look at overall ohms rod ,eg with a carbon ht lead and say 15k resistance, then maybe a non restiror plug , with a spiral wound stainless wire ,or a 5 k wire , id use a resistor plug , no proof that this is reasonable though lol.

Bicester scramble ,Medusa enjoyed the trip. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-7I7-nA19U


Graham T

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I may well be way off the mark here, but could this be something like the secondary trigger being faulty?
Could be that in changing the spark plugs and restarting the engine just allowed it to start the injection sequence in the correct phase of the engine cycle?

On 19th Apr, 2011 gemertw said:

… After having checked, valve timing, valve opening, compression ratios and much more I found nothing wrong and started the engine again expecting to see the same problem to return but surprise surprise now the inners were running lean and the outers rich! After swapping over the sparkplugs again (I had these removed for compression testing and had put them back in random order) the inners were running rich again and the outers lean …


Could this also account for the fact that AFR spread does not appear to be altering when changing the injection modes and inj timing figures?

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...tid=350549&fr=0

Half way down page 1...



On 21st Mar, 2010 Graham T said:
Another set back. I think...

It appears my second trigger is not working.
Sometimes I start up and it runs up fine, but mostly I'm getting very rough running. Switch off and restart a few times and eventually it runs fine, so I am guessing it's not getting a signal from the second trigger?

Is there any way to test this without the use of a scope? ie should I get a visible voltage from the signal wire on say, a volt meter? I'm not sure what sort of signal should be output from it.
The hall sensor is the Siemens HKZ101, as Per Paul S's

Also, if I had set up the timing tables when the engine was running 360deg out, so the ecu seeing number 4 cylinder as number 1, could I achieve the results posted above? I ask, because no matter what I do, I cannot get AFR's to match at tickover. I can get the outers down to 14.5 AFR, but the inners the best I can achieve is 10, then the engine starts "hunting".. and I cannot get a better run than that posted early.





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