No or very little oil pressure
Turbo Mini Forums

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Yeah the turbo pump is a GLP110MS. Apologies if you confused it with an original metro turbo one. What scares me though is that this pump is 4 years old and unused yet, how many other people are running these?

Edited by Carlzilla on 7th Jul, 2015.

I've had contact with simon by email a couple of times today and i know Graham has spoken to them. Not altogether convinced it would be appropriate for them to discuss it on an open forum at this time although i'd welcome them if they do

They are certainly looking at it and it doesn't appear to be a one off!

Edited by Rob Gavin on 7th Jul, 2015.

Mmmm. This worries me that we're off on a tangent and were all off on a wild goose chase......

i think we might have stumbled onto an issue that has been around for a long time. I remember having issues like this about 16 years ago, which went away when i changed what type of pump i was using.

Indeed.

I've got a standard turbo engine complete sitting under the bench i am loathed to split but i'm tempted to pull it apart and compare a factory unit to set the bench mark

just looking on google imagase thros up a lot of susect looking pumps.

Hmm.... Think I've been here too:
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=568799

Mine is behaving now, but possibly more by luck than anything else? I had the same torn gasket on strip down.

I bought a GLP110MS in December 2008. Fitted and ran it on the 1293T during 2009. Engine is sat on the barn floor about to go back in a car.

I don't recall any specific oil pressure issues and if there were, we may have attributed them to the Zetec jets.

Tempted to pull the oil pump, just for piece of mind.

Oh... and we also had a blue roll issue, although ours was left in the fuel tank by the manufacturer.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

for those stuck with a new pump that is a duffer , would a thin spacer plate with wider margins work to solve it ..say 1mm thick plate ,with a couple of gaskets ?

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

Possibly.
I can't see why the ports on pump need to be so big - they can only match the ports in the block, the rest of the opening is superfluous.

The ports have to be that shape size on the inside of the pump because of the way it works.
They could just be two round holes on the back face of the pump (matching the two holes in the block) but making them the right shape size inside and two holes through the back would be a two stage machining process.
So cheapest option is make the inside shape/size go all the way through and just use the gasket and shape of the block face to do the conversion.
Everything is built to a cost....

EDIT - actually, thinking about it a bit more, the fact the slots are bigger/wider than a standard 1275 pump may be one of the ways they improved its flow capacity - without thinking about the consequences of just using the gasket to reduce the hole size.

I'm going to have to go and find a standard one and pull my turbo one to compare.

Edited by Rod S on 8th Jul, 2015.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing

Edited by Rob Gavin on 8th Jul, 2015.

would need to watch the clearance on the bolt heads I think, but nothing a file/counterbore wouldnt fix.

on the back of Robert's suggestion earlier, I was discussing with Keith a spacer plate and he recalled seeing something similar in the past. A bit of research found that there was a conversion plate available for changing the pin drive to star drive and some other situations

http://www.aptfast.com/ShowItem/101067%20O...er%20Plate.aspx

perhaps an option of a solution for those who have an issue without needing to replace pump. Just wondering what depth is available from the pump to the casing.......

be careful with the spacer thickness with regard to pump drive engagement in the end of the cam

In my case, the dog gear is almost full depth of the slot in the cam so i could easily use say 1.5mm spacer with a couple of gaskets

All quick measurements on a single A+ engine - you may want to check your own first.

Pump mounting face to pump recess in casing (gasket included):

998 =43.8mm
1275 = 37.8mm


EDIT: THIS IS MISLEADING....
The Minspares turbo pump (GLP110MS) measures about 34.0mm deep (including gasket).


EDIT: IT SHOULD READ...
The Minspares turbo pump (GLP110MS) measures about 36.2mm deep (including gasket and my 1/4" unf bolts to hold it to the block).


...So for a 1275 I reckon there's at most 1.6mm room behind this particular pump and bolt conbination, (and lots more for a 998). All quick measurements on a single A+ engine. I think I'm going to use 0.9mm stainless sheet plus an extra gasket.

I've read that if you use a 998 pump in a 1275 block, the drive peg is withdrawn about 6mm further away from the cam, which is just enough to engage, then shear off under load. If the peg is only about a millimetre or so further out due to a spacer , I suspect this will be fine.

Edited by PhilR on 9th Jul, 2015.

Phil,

In those measurements did you include the bolt head thicknesses ?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Yes, I included the bolts in the turbo pump (3.3mm domed cap heads on my pump).

EDIT:
If you meant the 1/4unf bolts to hold it to the block, then no, I forgot. The bolts I have add an additional 2.2mm to the pump height. This reduces the current clearance to 1.6mm in my case unless I use different bolts or trim them down.

Also, there are 2 concentric, circular recesses for the pump in the transfer casing; I included the outer 95mm diameter recess but not small inner 35mm one.

Edited by PhilR on 9th Jul, 2015.

Well i went up to the shed for a bit more of a look. I found an old powerflow pump and to be honest, it was extremely close to the ap one (quite frankly looked the same but older).

Now thinking about it, in normal circumstances, if the pump is only leaking from the presure side, the pressure would be retained by the cam bearing. It would simply be the sane as feeding another bearing in the block.

The issue in my case perhaps that because the inlet is leaking, it is constantly scavenging from the cam bearing area?

I just cant get my head round why this has not come up before now given the clearly large number of pumps with similar size readings

Edited by Rod S on 8th Jul, 2015.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=382387

Photo's of tonight's endeavours.

First standard pump:




next The Turbo pump:



Finally the 1275 evolution pump:



(I said S evolution pump in earlier posts, but got myself confused. The S appears to be a long pin version (whatever that is))





One thing of note to add, I took a whole load of measurements of the pump and pump recess in the block earlier tonight.
The pump recess is 90.64mm dia and the pumps are:
1275 Evo 90.37mm
Turbo 90.25mm
standard 1275 90.35mm.
The bolt holes are also 1mm over the size of the bolt, so lots of room for movement.
So the blue gives an indication only, unless you actually centralise the pump properly, which would not be easy whilst trying to get a clean transfer from block to pump body.
Also I never had any engineers blue so I attacked the DIY cupboard and found some blue emulsion. Not perfect but I think it does the job...

Evolution pump installed and the engine is in. I just ran out of time to fill with oil and spin it over. A job for tomorrow night.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Looking forward to seeing your results Graham. Fingers crossed it will be the proof we are looking for