No or very little oil pressure
Turbo Mini Forums

Thanks Josh,

It will be interesting to see but I presume your's is the small bore block version ?

The large bore block ones only use two bolts which is what Rob and Graham have found the issue with.

That is not to say the issue isn't the same as Phil's photo is of a 3 bolt type - is your's a small block pump Phil ?

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Yep, the first one I posted was a standard replacement small bore pump, which was in fact worse than the big bore turbo pump that I tested.

Edited by PhilR on 17th Jul, 2015.

well no time for the mini this weekend had to work on the 4x4 to get it back in roadworthy condition to sell it engine mounts and rea brakes

porblay be a week untill i get a chance again

Hmmm I have a new small bore oil pump that I put in this year...

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

hunting through the greenhouse for a medusa lpg cuttoff valve , i found this pump ..
















not very good marking ink , but you can see the inner ring , this is the cam bearing edge ,and the outer ring ,which is the edge of the block .


this is a powerflow turbo pump , and ran on my spud with good pressure . i tok it out when i obliterated my helical gears.


robert.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

The block an cam bearing that left the mark... was that the same block and bearing that it was used with?

Edited by PhilR on 25th Jul, 2015.

Is the cam bearing flush with the block face Robert?

high chaps,

phil, it was used a lot on the spud engine , then was used for 10 minutes on this engine with the fiat 16v head on it .

rob , looking at this marking i would say that the cam bearing is about a thou out from the face .the gasket would cater for this i think . i rubbed the marks into the pump by pushing hard and rotating it a fair few times , you can just see rubbing marks out on the mounting bolt diameter .

Edited by robert on 28th Jul, 2015.

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

it really is amazing that engines have been surviving with these oilpumps and almost total lack of gasket support!

right well here is the preliminary findings on my mini spares black top aluminum blade drive pump

this pump had good pressure and i dont think my oil problems where from this pump but thats not to say something couldn't happen down the track since pulling this engine down ive found some sponge or foam has plugged the oil pickup ! ha the slow and gradual decrease in pressure was the gradual gathering of bits of sponge on the pickup haha live n learn

so back to the pump and gasket problem!

the compressed gasket is about 2.3mm at the best i can measure thats between pressure and cam the suction is a tinny bit more not much at all
im also concerned about the other holes like the cam is pressure fed by a tinny hole and the bolt hole is way close to not sealing same for the 4 bolt pattern near the pressure side

i think at the least ill make my own gasket when it goes back together at the least








my calipers whont fit in the block resess









by playing the light you can see the compressed areas and the non just look at how tinny some are to bolt holes how that seals up i have no idea

To be fair, that looks far better than mine. The position of the ports look a lot more like the new evolution pump too

Possibly why it dosent seem to have failed
Kinder suprised the camere went flat ill get a pic of the oil pickup

Josh, I think over 2mm of gasket should be fine. Compared to the ones that did fail or some of the others pictured, that looks like a good pump.

^^^^

As above, much better than some of the others photo'd.

Interesting how that gasket overlaps the cam journal by quite a bit.

Even though that part isn't compressed, it adds strength (against tearing) to the 2mm or so that actually is compressed.
I have a non-genuine one on my desk (not yet been fitted) which is the same profile and sizing.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

nice didn't want to need a different pump as this one is new and barely used haha

will post back when its time to fire it up will compare the new gasket to the old and make sure its the same

how about some kind of sealant/glue on the gasket? im tanking the tinest of thin or a light spray of something like hylmar ?

just a thought maby it could help the little gasket thats clamped stay put?

Problem is, with some of the pumps photographed, there are gaps between the metal surfaces so the gasket isn't clamped to anything, so no amount of sealant will help - fluid at 75 psi will just tear the gasket.

At this point, I think I'm going to make a re-enforcement plate and use gaskets on each side. I pulled the cam bearing out of my block and tried to reinsert it close to flush. The cam spun freely, it looked ok and also when the pump was rotated it left a circular mark like Robert's photo above, but when measured, one side was actually recessed so I doubt mine would pinch the gasket all the way around.

Edited by PhilR on 27th Jul, 2015.

Well I got mine back in tonight. Approx 40seconds on the starter had just under 50psi on a tired battery!

Happy chappy

Good news Rob.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

Glad you've sorted it, bet that must've been frustrating!!!
so to conclude, which pump to avoid? and which one is the one to go for?

Well for me, the pump of issue was the late minispares turbo pump. A close second is the old powerflow pump which has very similar characteristics. The question would be if you actually need a high flow pump or not as a few have used a standard pump successfully.

While the new evolution pump has sorted graham and my issues, it is expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if a revised turbo pump appears shortly.

Would also note plenty of people have run these turbo pumps without obvious issue so i'd say this is a guide as opposed to the rule

There was a programme on BBC one just a while ago, "The sheriffs are coming" which I accidentaly watched part of when I came down from doing more important things but it had a segment about Jonspeed, someone making a claim about them and the county court ruling against Jonspeed.

OK, no surprises there but about 14 minutes in, there is a photo of an oil pump gasket.

It's available on Iplayer now.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

hmmm....

good news man grate for it to be over for you

I saw someone post up about it on another forum but never knew anything about it. To be fair, the pump gasket issue and pump itself don't appear to reflect the issues we've highlighted

I watched the program out of curiosity; I was also vaguely aware of their bad reputation, but generally don't read into stories when you don't hear both sides of the story... However, the program gave him a chance to tell his side and his response was cringe-worthy! There was also a sign on the wall saying something like "The price we charge depends on the customers attitude". What an arse!

I admit, I did pause it and attempt to examine the gasket and pump; I think it looked identical as the first one that Graham blued - a good standard pump with no leaks.

Edited by PhilR on 31st Jul, 2015.