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Home > Help Needed / General Tech Chat > No or very little oil pressure

Graham T

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Hungerford, Berks

I’ll be interested to see what you come back with.

I had to strip mine out yet again after my “”blue” roll contamination” because I still got no oil pressure or for that matter flow.
No amount of priming got oil up and out to the transfer pipe.
Second rebuild I replaced the central oil pickup pipe.
(Rod also pointed out to me that the flange of the central oil pickup pipes were concave (due to the welding of the flange to pipe), and that could cause issues, so that also got flatted out before assembly.)
There was no sign of damage to my oil pump gasket though.
Now it’s back together I have 60PSI on cranking - That’s after finding out that the oil pressure relief valve which I thought was good was actually not and was sticking open.
On tickover I’m getting 60PSI
Rev up to around 3000RPM gives me ~70 -75PSI.
So it all looks good. Sort of…
When I turn the engine off, the transfer pipe empties of oil pretty quickly, 10 – 15 seconds (I have a clear transfer pipe at the moment so I can see the oil flowing and it completely empties).
My concern now is that as you reported, I’m seeing extremely slow pressure pick up.
On start up it’s taking around 10 – 12 seconds to get oil to the transfer pipe. Once the transfer pipe fills, pressure is up to 60PSI pretty instantly.
That’s worrying enough, but I have not yet run it up to temperature since the last rebuild so no idea what will happen with hot oil.
Anyhow, watching with interest.


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

well I've just been up to the workshop as my mind was getting the better of me.

first look was the seating of the pump. I used a couple of bits of plastigauge and they were bot consistent at 0.0025" so happy with that. I also appear to have plenty of clearance between the cam and pump drive.

what I did note was from the witness marks when I was rotating the pump in the casting that the line of the chamfer to the cam bearing is very close to the openings to the ports in the pump. A bit of rough measurement across these and the bearing shows an extremely minimal surface area to clamp a gasket (gnats ball hair comes to mind). I checked my old pump and this was a good 8mm or so wider across the same.

new pump



cam bearing



old pump



my thoughts are that the pump is the issue........


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

Which pump are you running Graham? just wondering if its a similar issue


On 6th Jul, 2015 Graham T said:
I’ll be interested to see what you come back with.

I had to strip mine out yet again after my “”blue” roll contamination” because I still got no oil pressure or for that matter flow.
No amount of priming got oil up and out to the transfer pipe.
Second rebuild I replaced the central oil pickup pipe.
(Rod also pointed out to me that the flange of the central oil pickup pipes were concave (due to the welding of the flange to pipe), and that could cause issues, so that also got flatted out before assembly.)
There was no sign of damage to my oil pump gasket though.
Now it’s back together I have 60PSI on cranking - That’s after finding out that the oil pressure relief valve which I thought was good was actually not and was sticking open.
On tickover I’m getting 60PSI
Rev up to around 3000RPM gives me ~70 -75PSI.
So it all looks good. Sort of…
When I turn the engine off, the transfer pipe empties of oil pretty quickly, 10 – 15 seconds (I have a clear transfer pipe at the moment so I can see the oil flowing and it completely empties).
My concern now is that as you reported, I’m seeing extremely slow pressure pick up.
On start up it’s taking around 10 – 12 seconds to get oil to the transfer pipe. Once the transfer pipe fills, pressure is up to 60PSI pretty instantly.
That’s worrying enough, but I have not yet run it up to temperature since the last rebuild so no idea what will happen with hot oil.
Anyhow, watching with interest.


Tom Fenton
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Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner

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Rotherham South Yorkshire

Rob, could that pump be stuck in a lathe and machine a groove for an O ring to go between the oil ports and cam?


On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:


On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else


Like fuel 😂😂


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

possibly but the seal would be right on the chamfer I think so it would have to be carefully down

I've emailed the supplier for comment


Rod S

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Rural Suffolk

Very interesting, it's obvious in your second photo in the series of three.

Whilst the oil on the pressure side of the pump gets fed to that end cam bearing anyway, if the gasket fails both sides - which seems inevitable with that newer pump - the oil's just going to flow back to the suction side.
The amount the pressure is reduced as a result will be down to the limited gap from the failed gasket but it would certainly explain the oil draining back out of the system and hence the slow build-up of pressure.

That has to be a major cockup by the pump manufacturer.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Graham T

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480 Posts
Member #: 1106
Senior Member

Hungerford, Berks



On 6th Jul, 2015 Rob Gavin said:
Which pump are you running Graham? just wondering if its a similar issue




MiniSpares GLP110MS - Turbo Oil Pump.
According to my minispares history I bought it September 10th 2014.


I'm just looking for any photo's of it I may have taken pre install, to see if it looks anything like yours.


Graham T

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Senior Member

Hungerford, Berks

Nope - Looks like I never took a photo.

Depressingly, It just hit me: If you confirm the same pump, that means I'm going to have to pull the engine again for peace of mind.
Arse - This Saturday was the inaugural spin up the road to confirm it was all ready for MOT.


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

same pump; I can't recall when I bought it exactly right now but I pulled the engine apart in October and would have ordered parts around the same time so, hate to say it, we could have pumps from the same batch............


Graham T

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Hungerford, Berks

fffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk.


JT

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Hertfordshire

And you both a blue roll troubles! What are the chances ay!?

Shane about pulling it all apart but at least you know it'll be right once it's done.

The joys of cars!!

My build thread..

http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=542985


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

Why can't anyone make things the way they used to. I mean its not rocket science to follow technical drawings, especially if they are supposed to be made by the same manufacturer!

Unbelievable!

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Joe C

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Carlos Fandango

Burnham-on-Crouch, Essex

what he said...

here's a drawing... or somthing to make a drawing from... FUCKING COPY IT!

On 28th Aug, 2011 Kean said:
At the risk of being sigged...

Joe, do you have a photo of your tool?



http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.p...9064&lastpost=1

https://joe1977.imgbb.com/



fastcarl

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Fastest A Series Mini in the World

leeds/wakefield.

is the oil pump a new item or an existing one you have used before,?

carl

WWW.FORCE-RACING.CO.UK PLEASE CLICK HERE


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

I fitted it back around november Carl so it has been used (perhaps 50 Miles or so)


Graham T

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Hungerford, Berks

All stripped down again and I have 40.5mm between ports on the Turbo oil Pump.

I’ve measure the cam bearing chamfer OD at a very rough 39.1mm
The old pump, a standard 1275 pump, has a measurement of 43.40mm between ports.
I can’t see anything wrong with the gasket.

]







But this turbo pump does seem to leak oil back through at a fair rate, where as the standard pump holds oil no matter which port you fill.









Mine is new, Run on tickover for maybe 5 mins and up to 3000RPM for 20 or 30 Seconds.

I suppose I now also have to call minispares and see what they say…


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

Is the evolution pump minispares sell at around 80 spondoolies going to be any better I wonder.....

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

Gasket looks good on yours and the witness marks on the base show a better gap between the port and the cam bearing


Rod S

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Rural Suffolk

On 6th Jul, 2015 Graham T said:

I can’t see anything wrong with the gasket.

Except in your first photo the oil witness marks, especially on the left of your photo, show sod all gasket between the port and the cam bearing.

Which just matches the measurements you and Rob have taken.

Once the gasket fails both sides - which is inevitable from what we've seen - oil pressure will be low and build up very slow.

This looks like a very serious fuckup by the manufacturers.

Maybe gavin (@minispares) will see this and offer a view.

I think I may have the same issue but to a lesser extent, same pump but two years earlier, but low pressure and slow build up but I allways put it down to my build being all old parts (crankshaft, bearings etc) apart from the pump itself which was new but two years earlier.
The only difference being a non-genuine pump gasket which was a different shape around the holes.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


apbellamy

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King Gaycharger, butt plug dealer, Sheldon Cooper and a BAC but generally a niceish fella if you dont mind a northerner

Rotherham, South Yorkshire

This has got me paranoid about mine. Mine was a standard pump from m.s., new about 3 years ago. My pressure is fine running but takes a while to come up from cold when starting. I had put it down to the mpi filter allowing it to drain into the sump. Hmmm.

On 11th Feb, 2015 robert said:
i tried putting soap on it , and heating it to brown , then slathered my new lube on it

*hehe!*


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow

Well i've emailed the supplier to see what they say about it. Will let you know hopefully soon


PhilR

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Birmingham

I removed this one last week to replace with a higher capacity pump before it was ever run. I'm pretty sure it was this one from Minispares... http://www.minispares.com/product////Oil_pumps/GLP139.aspx


I blued up the block and refitted to check. There's a fair gap on the low pressure side, and the high side has less than 0.5mm overlap. I'll take it back in a few weeks and see what they say.


Edited by PhilR on 6th Jul, 2015.


PhilR

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Birmingham

On 6th Jul, 2015 Graham T said:


On 6th Jul, 2015 Rob Gavin said:
Which pump are you running Graham? just wondering if its a similar issue




MiniSpares GLP110MS - Turbo Oil Pump.
According to my minispares history I bought it September 10th 2014.


I'm just looking for any photo's of it I may have taken pre install, to see if it looks anything like yours.


Graham, that's the pump I was planning to use, so I just checked it and it doesn't look much better...



Just a thought... Have either of you changed your cam bearings? I've just checked 3 blocks, and the factory fitted bearing sits flush with the gasket face, should help pinch the gasket against the pump.

I've checked another block that I changed the cam bearings in and I've made 2 potential mistakes - not pulling the bearing all the way through, and fitting it backwards (I can't believe I missed that); My replacement bearing has a heavy chamfer that should be on the inside to aid cam fitting, while the rear side has no chamfer and about 2mm wide edge - probably enough for the gasket to seat against.

Edited by PhilR on 7th Jul, 2015.


Sprocket

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Preston On The Brook

I'm sure I have an old turbo pump in my stock somewhere from about 2008. I'll dig it out next week and check things out as I'm interested to know what the answer is.

Phil, you have a very valid point regarding the cam bearing.

On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be...
So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'...


On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........


Rob Gavin

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Glasgow




This looks remarkably like mine would if i had engineers blue.

Its been a really long time since i started prepping this block but i'm sure the cam bearings were replaced. Having said that, even if they were sitting bang on flush with the block, in my case, you would be relying purely on the edge of the bearing to seal. Still not enough in my eyes

All interesting stuff though

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