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 608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
26th Apr, 2015 at 04:47:05pm
Good afternoon people.
Edited by Graham T on 26th Apr, 2015. ’77 Clubman build thread
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3594 Posts Member #: 655 Post Whore Northern Ireland |
26th Apr, 2015 at 05:01:14pm
Pump may not be bolted to block properly, or the pickup pipe is leaking or broken. 9.85 @ 145mph
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 9812 Posts Member #: 332 Resident Cylinder Head Modifier Mitsi Evo 7, 911, Cossie. & all the chavs ...... won no problem |
26th Apr, 2015 at 05:31:24pm
hi graham, as above what stevieturbo says about the pump please check and fit a new gen gasket ...................... alas but my monies on this ................... Edited by BENROSS on 26th Apr, 2015.
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
29th Apr, 2015 at 03:05:54pm
On 26th Apr, 2015 stevieturbo said:
Pump may not be bolted to block properly... Correct, or rather the pump cannot bolt to the block properly. I’ve got a bit more investigation to do, but it appears that the drive “blade” on the pump is bottoming out inside the drive slot in the end of the cam. Certainly, without a gasket in place you can feel that the pump rocks on the drive blade. All the oil was disappearing through the cam bearing and back into the block, hence we could not see what was happening without splitting the engine/ gearbox. It was obviously not bad enough to affect pressure when running, but enough to drain the pump when not running. This original pump is a standard 1275 oil pump. I have a new Turbo pump which we have fitted and that seats properly. Now there is no evidence of oil leaking back through the cam bearing. Very rough measuring gives ~0.5mm difference in the length of the oil pump drive blades, from mating surface of the oil pump to the top of the drive blade, the standard 1275 pump being the longer. So now we are going to take a look and see if all is well with the cam fitment. On 26th Apr, 2015 BENROSS said:
… on OEM gearbox to engine block gaskets the gasket which is for the O ring side, the OEM gasket does not cover the O ring ....so the O ring does its job sealing ..........but on no gen minispares after market gaskets.kit the gasket in question DOES cover the O ring causing this classic problem .............. i have pointed it out to the powers that be bud sadley it fell on deaf ears This is also the case: 
But…. I think this maybe the ultimate reason for no oil getting up to the pump: 
What can it be??? Closer inspection: 
Paper… Lots of mushed up paper. At this point all I can surmise is that either the cam has moved (??) Or that this is how it was when originally built. I guess this explains the reason why I have had so many issues with having to repeatedly prime the oil pump. As stated originally, most of the engines running life was without driving it, so my guess would be that the paper was “whole” up until the point I did the test runs, so although I had a bitch of a job priming, once it was running, there was no issue with drawing the oil from the sump. Then after the test runs, the paper got mulched up and blocked the pickup filter. Maybe. Anyhow, gearbox now to be stripped to get it cleaned out and timing cover whipped off to take a look at the cam. Then hopefully a running engine. Edited by Graham T on 29th Apr, 2015. ’77 Clubman build thread
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 16540 Posts Member #: 4241 King Gaycharger, butt plug dealer, Sheldon Cooper and a BAC but generally a niceish fella if you dont mind a northerner Rotherham, South Yorkshire |
29th Apr, 2015 at 06:27:38pm
Where's Rob Gavin when you need him. On 11th Feb, 2015 robert said:
i tried putting soap on it , and heating it to brown , then slathered my new lube on it 
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 6729 Posts Member #: 618 Post Whore Glasgow |
29th Apr, 2015 at 08:59:18pm
Lol! |
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 11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
30th Apr, 2015 at 06:20:42am
Well with all that blue roll in thete it should at least be very clean Edited by Sprocket on 30th Apr, 2015. On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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Site Admin  15300 Posts Member #: 337 Fearless Tom Fenton, Avon Park 2007 & 2008 class D winner & TM legend. |
30th Apr, 2015 at 07:11:23am
I've said it before, that fucking blue paper roll is a menace!!
On 29th Nov, 2016 madmk1 said:
On 28th Nov, 2016 Rob Gavin said:
I refuse to pay for anything else Like fuel 😂😂 |
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 10022 Posts Member #: 1456 Mongo Barnsley, South Flatcapshire |
30th Apr, 2015 at 07:54:22am
Must double check for roll in my gearbox before engine goes together! If something is worth doing, it's worth doing half of. |
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6729 Posts Member #: 618 Post Whore Glasgow |
30th Apr, 2015 at 08:46:27am
I had to strip the box right down to get it all out; bearings were fine but it was all clogged up around the diff and particularly round the pick-up!
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
30th Apr, 2015 at 11:12:17am
This is sounding more and more expensive… if I have to pull the diff out, I’m going to have to fight off the urge to get an ATB.
On 30th Apr, 2015 Tom Fenton said:
I've said it before, that fucking blue paper roll is a menace!! It may not have been blue paper roll. It’s the First time I’ve been inside this engine so I can’t comment on the colour of the paper in its previous form… ’77 Clubman build thread
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6729 Posts Member #: 618 Post Whore Glasgow |
30th Apr, 2015 at 01:48:02pm
hahaha! |
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 4890 Posts Member #: 1775 Post Whore Chester |
30th Apr, 2015 at 04:11:07pm
At least you never found out at 20psi I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
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 (2)[/url] by [url=https://www.flickr.com/photos/150672766@N03/]Rod Sugden[/url], on Fli) 5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
1st May, 2015 at 11:58:45am
From previous discussions I have had with Graham (off-forum, mainly by email over our EFi setups) I know he has a billet cam (hence why our EFi setups are different as his cam timing is different).
On 30th Apr, 2015 Graham T said:
It may not have been blue paper roll. It’s the First time I’ve been inside this engine so I can’t comment on the colour of the paper in its previous form… If you build it yourself you have only yourself to blame (sorry Rob) but if you source it elsewhere, it pays to look first as others have found out the hard way. Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
1st May, 2015 at 05:45:01pm
On 1st May, 2015 Rod S said:
Probably worth checking the triangular thrust plate at the other end of the cam as lack of clearance on the drive dog could have pushed the cam hard against that bearing when the oil pump bolts were tightened. I’ve not got a picture of the thrust plate bearing side, but that looked ok. However… 
This presumably is the result of little or no end float on the camshaft? Luckily I found this early enough this afternoon to get a new thrust plate and load of shims for the crank sprocket on order for guarantied Saturday delivery (ouch!). Once I have the parts I’ll check the end float and machine the sprocket collar as necessary. On 30th Apr, 2015 gr4h4m said:
At least you never found out at 20psi Ha, 20 psi. That would be nice. I only managed about 4.6Psi on the test runs, and to be fair that was disappointing. Maybe due to the high ratio of the 1st gear in the clubman SCCR gear set and 2.9:1 final drive, but I’d like to think it’s down to the special self-cleaning gearbox modification and possible drag on the cam shaft – if that would even be an issue. It was only down to my disappointment in the performance that this issue came up. I reset the waste gate actuator and was attempting a second set of tests on slightly higher boost the following weekend, which was when I found I had no oil pressure, otherwise this would have been found on the way to the MOT. Edited by Graham T on 1st May, 2015. ’77 Clubman build thread
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 2975 Posts Member #: 10749 Post Whore lowestoft suffolk |
1st May, 2015 at 06:26:09pm
Note to future self.... keep all blue roll/tissue away from engine building.. On 24th Oct, 2015 jonny f said:
Nothing gets past Dave lol NOTHING GETS PAST ME!! 
1/4 mile 14.7 @ 96mph 12psi boost Showdown class A 2nd place 18.6 @ 69mph |
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6729 Posts Member #: 618 Post Whore Glasgow |
1st May, 2015 at 07:09:45pm
Blue roll is fine when building. Just don't leave it in the engine |
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11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
1st May, 2015 at 07:31:31pm
On 1st May, 2015 Rod S said:
From previous discussions I have had with Graham (off-forum, mainly by email over our EFi setups) I know he has a billet cam (hence why our EFi setups are different as his cam timing is different). I would guess the clearance issue on the drive dog forcing the oil pump not to seat properly is down to the way the slot has been cut in the cam rather than differences in the pump shafts between a 1275 and a turbo version, I'm sure Leyland would have left plenty of clearance on all their setups because of their wide range of manufacturing tolerances. Those who manufacture billet cams may be more concerned over the lobe profiles than such basic stuff as slot size/length. There are other possibilities, like gasket thickness's, why the pump won't seat properly against a cam drive but there should be enough tolerance on OEM parts. Probably worth checking the triangular thrust plate at the other end of the cam as lack of clearance on the drive dog could have pushed the cam hard against that bearing when the oil pump bolts were tightened. On 30th Apr, 2015 Graham T said:
It may not have been blue paper roll. It’s the First time I’ve been inside this engine so I can’t comment on the colour of the paper in its previous form… If you build it yourself you have only yourself to blame (sorry Rob) but if you source it elsewhere, it pays to look first as others have found out the hard way. I concur about the thickness of the gasket between the front plate and block. The OEM gasket was very thick. It's been a while since I used a standard front plate so have no idea what is being supplied in gasket kits these days. This 'extra' dimension was something I had to take into consideration when designing the 16 valver engine seal plate that uses only a smear of RTV instead. Edited by Sprocket on 1st May, 2015. On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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11046 Posts Member #: 965 Post Whore Preston On The Brook |
1st May, 2015 at 07:35:35pm
on a side note, thinking about it, the thikness of the front plate gasket could also alter the cam lob position in relation to the followers such that they may not rotate as they should?................. On 26th Oct, 2004 TurboDave16v said:
Is it A-Series only? I think it should be... So when some joey comes on here about how his 16v turbo vauxhall is great compared to ours, he can be given the 'bird'... On 26th Oct, 2004 Tom Fenton said:
Yep I agree with TD........ |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
2nd May, 2015 at 05:20:32pm
I had 2 new Engine front plate gaskets in the gasket bin, one Payen which measures ~0.85mm thick and one from an FAI set, which measures ~0.44mm thick.
Edited by Graham T on 2nd May, 2015. ’77 Clubman build thread
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6729 Posts Member #: 618 Post Whore Glasgow |
2nd May, 2015 at 05:38:07pm
Lol! |
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2975 Posts Member #: 10749 Post Whore lowestoft suffolk |
2nd May, 2015 at 09:39:11pm
Its a pitty the blue rolls dont come with that warning On 24th Oct, 2015 jonny f said:
Nothing gets past Dave lol NOTHING GETS PAST ME!!
1/4 mile 14.7 @ 96mph 12psi boost Showdown class A 2nd place 18.6 @ 69mph |
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5988 Posts Member #: 2024 Formally Retired Rural Suffolk |
2nd May, 2015 at 10:06:51pm
Not sure which make is which from the photo but one of those gaskets if for an "A" and the other for an "Aplus".
Edited by Rod S on 2nd May, 2015. Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ??? |
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
3rd May, 2015 at 07:20:56am
Oh Bollocks...
’77 Clubman build thread
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608 Posts Member #: 1106 Post Whore Hungerford, Berks |
3rd May, 2015 at 06:15:35pm
Actually, I think that looking into it more, both the above gaskets are for the pre A+.
’77 Clubman build thread
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| Home > Help Needed / General Tech Chat > Oil Pressure Problems | |||||||
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on OEM gearbox to engine block gaskets the gasket which is for the O ring side, the OEM gasket does not cover the O ring ....so the O ring does its job sealing ..........but on no gen minispares after market gaskets.kit the gasket in question DOES cover the O ring causing this classic problem .............. i have pointed it out to the powers that be bud sadley it fell on deaf ears
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