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Home > A-Series EFI / Injection > Wideband placement

TMan

3 Posts
Member #: 11662
Junior Member

Hi all,

First post, been following this forum for a number of years now. Loads of great info, thanks *smiley*

Im collecting parts to implement sequential EFI using MS3, and i wondering about placement of wideband sensors in the exhaust manifold. This is currently for a NA engine, my final aim being forced induction. For the time being i just want to learn about EFI.

I want to install two widebands to enable accurate tuning of AFR, however after reading on here the only examples i can find (by paul and rod) are using sample chambers. Is this a must for monitoring both inner and outer? Im wondering if this was just necessary for turbocharged engines?

At the risk asking a completely idiotic question, can i place the widebands close to the cylinder head before the pipes merge? Im currently running a minispares LCB.

Also, wondering if anyone has used these controllers: https://ldperformance.co.uk/product/wideband-controller/

Cheers. T


jbelanger

1207 Posts
Member #: 831
Post Whore

Montreal, Canada

You don't need sample chambers on an NA engine. They are used to avoid exposing the sensor to the high pressure upstream of the turbo while still sampling the exhaust gas at that point.

Also, make sure that the sensors are not too close to the head because that would expose them to too much heat. Follow the recommendation of your chosen wideband controller. I'm not sure an LCB will allow this. Using heat sinks might work but using a controller that allows you to monitor the sensor temperature would still be a good idea.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/


Rod S

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5730 Posts
Member #: 2024
Formally Retired

Rural Suffolk

As Jean says, the sample chamber concept is to put the sensors in the same pressure and temperature environment as they would see on a NA engine. Particularly pressure - excess heat before a turbo will shorten their lives but the continually varying pressure will mean they will not be accurate (look at the datasheets for the sensors themselves and you will see how the output varies with pressure so, unless the controller can also read pressure at the sensor location and compensate, the reading will never be right).

re. the "new" ADV sensors (and associated controllers), I first read about them a couple of years ago and opinions were very mixed back then. I've never followed it up but the "standard" 4.2 and 4.9 sensors are relatively cheap now (as well as a lot of good makes of controller) so I have no desire to try anything "new".
I use the 14point7 controllers (with 4.2 or 4.9 sensors), one of his range that monitors temperature.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


TMan

3 Posts
Member #: 11662
Junior Member

Thanks for the feedback gents.

In terms of heatsink, the only 'off the shelf' item i can really find is the innovate HBX-1. Bit of googling shows other people have just made their own heat-shield from copper plate. The HBX-1 seems a bit pricey if a home made copper shield does the job.

Any suggestions/experiences?

Cheers

T


jbelanger

1207 Posts
Member #: 831
Post Whore

Montreal, Canada

I don't have experience with heat sinks or even reliable second hand information. The main issue is that people are happy if they don't get an error code from their controller or go through sensors quickly. That doesn't mean they have solved their overheating issues.

I assume you can use a home made solution successfully but I'll come back to my previous recommendation of using a controller that gives you sensor temperature information. This is the only way you'll know that you have a safe setup.

http://www.jbperf.com/


Paul S

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8487 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland

No need for a heat sink if you install the sensors the recommended distance from the head.

If you put them on the 2 down legs of the LCB, just above the diff, they will be fine. Well, that's how I've always done it without issue.

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."


TMan

3 Posts
Member #: 11662
Junior Member

Thanks jbelanger, ill keep that in mind when choosing a controller. At the moment i haven't found one with that functionality within my budget. Theres some cheap and cheerful EGT gauges + k-type sensors on eBay, i know that won't give me the lambda sensor temp but at least ill have an idea?

paul, thanks. thats where i was thinking of placing them. Did you use angled bosses to keep the sensor tip facing downwards?

Cheers

T


Rod S

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5730 Posts
Member #: 2024
Formally Retired

Rural Suffolk

As Paul says, the position you are thinking of shouldn't be a problem on a N/A engine.
For my initial N/A tests I used the standard A-Plus manifold (two long mild steel pipes after the cast bit) with the LSUs about 2/3 the way down. No long term testing but nothing to suggest it wasn't OK, it met the criteria for most of the wideband contollers distance recommendations. Bosses were at 90 degrees which was again fine by the controllers recommendations.
I wouldn't bother with EGT type sensors yet, just think about what you are doing long term, esp. if going MS3 (or even MS2 like I use) as there are lots of possibilities for controllers that interface specifically with the MS hardware or Jean's IOx range (which also integrates with the MS2/3) like I use.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???


Paul S

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8487 Posts
Member #: 573
Formerly Axel

Podland

Same as Rod but did many thousands of miles testing the Siamese code. Only one sensor failure but I don't think it was anything to do with the placement, just dumb user :)

Saul Bellow - "A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."
Stephen Hawking - "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."

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