New to efi & after some simple answers
Turbo Mini Forums

Hi all just after some advice I've read a fair bit using the search but I think iam heading to some conclusions ive a std metro turbo engine to fit in my midas & my brother keeps banging on about injection so thought why not try it on that I was going to get the sc throttle body which has 2 injectors iam sure your all aware of the item.
the next thing I've read is the ms2extra is the ecu to use is it as simple as selecting siamies on the menu & map from there? Can it be done just via a trigger wheel & crank sensor or does it have to have a cam shaft sensor added? Sorry for my basic efi knowledge it's my brother is the brains of that side of things. boost will be max 15psi I just thought I would add that because I could possibly fit it to my metro turbo at some point which is running acceptable power & 15psi boost. No doubt I've forgot something really basic but bare with me all advice welcome Many thanks scott

I Cannot speak for the SC TB Injection, because I have never used it and never really kept up with conversation on it, but there seem to be a fair few people running it who are happy with the results.

An MS2 with the “extra” code using Siamese injection is not exactly simple…
You will need a Cam sensor: whether that is directly on the cam wheel, or modifying a dizzy.
Also, you will need atleast 2 Lambda sensors with some sort of sample chambers to be able to monitor and balance the inner and outer cylinder mixture.

Depending on your desired power output you will need either just 2 large injectors (around 875cc/min) for up to about 150BHP, or 4 injectors staged for power output above that.
That then requires even more hardware and modification of the MS2.
Also, regardless of the power output, there are still modifications required to the MS2 to use the Siamese code.

Either way, if the Turbo is hanging off the back of the head, then you will need some sort of bespoke inlet manifold to lift everything to clear the turbo.
If you go to a remote turbo, with below 150bhp, then you could use an MPI inlet manifold with an uprated (metal type) MPI TB.


Personally I think the work involved is worth the effort for the MS2, but it depends on your end goal and how much pain and effort you want to put into Injecting a 5 port.

’77 Clubman build thread
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=618189

Siamese 5 port EFI testing
http://www.turbominis.co.uk/forums/index.php?p=vt&tid=611675

The SC TB is a single point injection setup which means you would not use the siamese injection settings on the MS2. So you could get away with only a crank sensor and no modification on the MS2 (could also use a Microsquirt).

But this will be a compromise compared to a port injection and full sequential setup (Siamese port setup). It will likely give satisfactory results and will be simpler to setup but there won't be a way to correct for whatever AFR imbalance your setup ends up with.

Jean

http://www.jbperf.com/

I never had any luck with the SC Efi using their ECU. I have ended up selling the entire kit.

I run a supercharger and I don't care the TB is on the wrong side.
VEMS + 12 PSI + Liquid Intercooler = Small Bore FUN!

Hi thanks for the advice I've bought a jenvey throttle body with 2 injectors in it pretty much the same set up as a sc one so I've got something to play about with & see how I get on

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Mine works fine. D400, 2x 630cc injectors and around 150bhp/150lbft

https://imgur.com/a/wZIxWqP

with that Jenvey manifold your gonna be making an "electronic carb" setup, so you'll have some AFR imbalance between inners and outers, so I would suggest mapping it slightly on the rich side,

in terms of the ECU, ive dablled with the SC stuff on K head engines, and found although its capable its not got a user freindly interface, personally for a simple setup I would be looking at speeduino,

Some great info as always guys I'll see what ECU me brother has as hes the brains behind the mapping for me. Iam just putting it together one thing iam not sure on at present is can I still use the std fuel pressure reg? What sort of pressure should I be running through the rail I've seen 45psi being mentioned alot also does the rail pressure need to rise with boost like the carb set up

ok, with fuel pressure you need an injection reg, I like the little webcon ones (Links below), as they are small, and use a OEM insert thats easy to get, you dont need an adjustable one, just one with the little pipe on the reg part to feed boost into.


Generally you want about 3 bar across the reg ( fuel rail to inlet pressure diferential) so the spray pattern stays consistent, of fpr example you dont boost reference it with 2 bar boost you aonly get a bar across the injector and the spray pattern can suffer, plus it flattens out the map in terms of injector times.






https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-5-Bar-Webcon-A...L8AAOSwGwFck6Fp

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Webcon-Alpha-3-B...uIAAOSwODFaXwG6

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FIAT-SAAB-PEUGEO...oAAAOSwM4xXYpCX

with regard to FPR I've used one of these;
https://www.specialist-components.co.uk/ind...-regulator.html
They utilise an Opel/Vauxhall regulator cap, if you have access to a lathe the base is a doddle to turn to make one a a fraction of the cost. The regulators come in various pressure ratings also.

Shane.

Thanks for the links it's all coming together in my head on what I need. It looks like a std metro turbo fuel pump will be powerful enough is this been tried? Also the jenvey has an injector on the top & one on the bottom could I split the fuel feed from the reg with a brass y piece or my other though was fuel in the top across the rail then down to the bottom inj & out the bottom rail directly under the feed so its basically running through like a c/u shape depending on the way you look at it? Appreciating all the help & inputs

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Hi,
I would run it like you have shown in the photo.
Although I would be tempted to replace that push on hose with a fitting for peace of mind.

My only thing to check would be clearance for that bottom injector with the turbo/bulkhead

I was thinking this would be the best way to run the fuelling but wasn't sure I could even tho i couldn't see why not & it's going to be fitted to a metro or my midas so there should be enough room I hope

That should help then!

I look forward to photos and updates of your success

I'll keep everyone posted & any more advice iam always listening

like alexa !!!!

Outside the box

🙄😆😆