Help needed: Megasquirt on a Yamaha R6
Turbo Mini Forums

I'd say yeah if the fueling was right but if its off it could well make it much harder to the point where it dosent want to know.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

the gas is good as it dosen't wet the plugs

On 21st May, 2010 mini13 said:
the gas is good as it dosen't wet the plugs

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

I'll get on it on Monday and let you know how i get on. Cheers lads

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

oh rod ,and i thought you had given meths up .megasquirt has a lot to answer for .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

I've solved a few problems and asked some questions on the megasquirt forums but they aren't as helpful as you guys....

Turns out I had a dodgy RPM signal because of the the tuning pots. Couldn't get it to work with the 4 toothed wheel so got one with 36 teeth water jetted. That works nicely.

Found a new problem... There are two coil packs (one runs cylinders 1 & 4, and the other 2 & 3). They both spark once per crank revolution (which is fine as it runs wasted spark) but they both spark at once? They are connected to separate pins on the megasquirt D-connector.

Any ideas?

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

Hmmmm...

They can't both spark at once, or it wouldn't run.

You are right to say each coil will spark once per revolution as it is wasted spark but the second coil/spark plug pair must be 180 degrees (1/2 rev) out to the first.

Unless you have a very weird crankshaft...

I know some two cylinder bike engines have their cranks figured opposed for balance (so go bang, bang, nothing, nothing...) but for a four cylinder to be non-opposed - which is what you would need for all sparks to be simultaneous - seems highly unlikely (double bang, nothing, double bang, nothing......).

What makes you think they both spark at once ???

EDIT - just thought, I'm assuming a straight four configuration.... I'm not up to speed on modern bike engines, is this some "Vee" configuration, in which case ignore what I just said - the spark sequence is often completely bizzare on multi cylinder Vee engines.

Edited by Rod S on 31st May, 2010.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

yup my ignition i built for my twin cylinder 500 honda engine does the bang bang nothing nothing thing rod .

Medusa + injection = too much torque for the dyno ..https://youtu.be/qg5o0_tJxYM

It's a straight 4. Fires 1342 like an A-series.

Have been using an oscilloscope to check the timing and from that have seen both coils fire at once and only once. (Plus, it sorta runs and sorta backfires as you might expect).

I can't see why one coil pack isn't 180 degress out like you said Rod. Have I cocked up a setting in megasquirt?

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

First, can you post up a close up photo of the big ICs on the heatsink.

Paul said earlier it looks like you have two ignitors and I thought the same at the time, but, looking again, I'm not so sure.

Try to get the markings legible in the photo and especially where the wires go from that one on the right.

If there aren't two seperate ones you can't achieve the correct timing with direct coil fire.

Do you know if the original builders intended direct coil fire with a coilpack (or pairs of coilpacks) and the ignitors on the MS board ???

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

That previous photo wasn't actually my board. Just it had the same processor and version of board. Sorry for any confusion.

I'll take a pic of mine tomorrow.

The board should be set-up to run two coil packs directly. They had it running on the same engine two years ago.

Thanks

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

Here are some pics....







could there be a conflict between the hardware setup and me changing from MSnS to MSextra?

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

msq in case that can help

edit: was supposed to attach? does it not work?

Edited by dan187 on 1st Jun, 2010.

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

it looks like the chips friving the coils are driven from the outside two LED's, when you crank the engine you should be able to see those LEDs flash alternativly, if they flash at the same time its pointing to a setting issue,

It looks like the second Ignitor chip has been screwed to the back (LED) panel......

What a fooking mess - shoot whoever did it.

But, as Joe says, it looks like the two drives are off the outer LEDs (as they should be for the Extra Code) so run it at low speed on the JimStim (you won't be able to tell on an engine as the speed will be too high even at tickover) and see if they flash together or alternately.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

traces of flux all over the board too, and i imagine the underside is worse, i have never personally had troubles but there were reports of a few non-running megasquirts purely due to the flux becoming conductive over time, fized by washing it off witha good pcb cleaner. aside from the fact that its just good practice!

turbo 16v k-series 11.9@118.9 :)

Denis O'Brien.

Thanks guys...
I watched at the LEDs before and am pretty sure they flash alternately but i'll check again.
I'll see if i can get a pcb cleaner.

here's the msq...
http://cid-300cb8517c03757e.skydrive.live....CurrentTune.msq

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

Got the msq copied over, I'll run it tomorrow and see what happens....

For PCB cleaner, just use Meths (the purple stuff) and an old toothbrush.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Well I loaded the msq into tuner studio (rather than trying to read it as text) and looked at the key settings.

It's a lot harder setup than the MS2-Extra code but all seems correct.

The two LEDs are re-assigned as Spark A and Spark B, the wheel is set as 36-1 and the horrible settings for the actual ignition points (it's a lot simpler in MS2) seem correct. There is a spreadsheet you can download from the MS1-Extra manual that calculates these figures and provided your trigger wheel is in the usual position, ie, missing tooth passes the sensor when the engine is 90 degree BTDC, then the figures from the spreadsheet match what you have loaded.

The only issue I noted is you still have the wheel decoder set as the 024 routine (which is for lesser toothed wheels, ie, the one you had previously) rather than the 025 but I wouldn't have thought it would cause the issue you appear to have.

Swap it first just to be sure it isn't the problem, then I suggest you connect the scope channels direct to the small resistors below the LEDS where the new wires are soldered on, top left and top middle of your first picture - although you should be able to see the LEDs flashing alternately at very low speds, you'll need the scope for higher RPM. If it's right there but still wrong at the coil, there's a wiring fault somewhere, possibly the three wires to the coilpack in the wrong order.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???

Thanks Rod...

It didn't seem to detect any crank signal when I ran 025 so kept it at 024. Not sure why that is?

I'll check those resistors... unfortunately it won't be till next week because got all my project work building up to hand in on Friday

The coils only have two wires. It looks as if there is a constant 12v feed to them (via fuses which are ok) and then then a wire to megasquirt which I assume either grounds the connection when wanting a pulse or provides a gate pulse.

1275 N/A Sprite, 998 T2 Turbo Mayfair
1275 EFi Turbo

The 024 vs 025 is a bit strange, the manual says 024 is for wheels with a few teeth and the 025 for ones with more.....

Checking at those reistors is simply because that is where the standard build ends and the modifications start - so it will prove if it is software settings (that neither of us have spotted) or hardware problems beyond.

The coil(s) (or coilpack) is/are indeed fed 12V and the ignitor chips inside the MS ground the other side to charge.

The reason I mentioned it is on a standard Ford Coilpack for example the centre connection is the 12V and the outers are the two coils so if the loom is wrong and 12V goes to an outer connector, one if the ignitors grounds both coils together in series (or tries to).

Good luck next week.

Schrödinger's cat - so which one am I ???